Christian Science and Meditation

[JohnLondon]

There are many types of meditation (including just sitting quietly and pondering a spiritual idea).

What kind of meditation was Mrs. Eddy opposed to, and why? How was she familiar with the practice and what was the reason for her opposition?


Thanks!
John

[Starlight Rider]

I don't recall Mrs. Eddy ever discussing meditation in any of her published writings, and a look through my concordances indicates she never used the words "meditate" or "meditation" in any of her books. Therefore there is nothing in her official teachings that indicates that she was opposed to meditation, nor is there anything to suggest she advocated it, either.

So unless there is something in the library archives, letters or unpublished writings, suggesting she was opposed to meditation, I would say she had no position on the subject one way or the other. That in itself seems odd, since meditation is a common practice in most religious traditions. Perhaps the term was just not in vogue in her day, and she preferred to simply call it prayer.

[imjim]

What kind of meditation was Mrs. Eddy opposed to, and why? How was she familiar with the practice and what was the reason for her opposition?

Interestingly enough, Mrs. Eddy does not use the word meditate or meditation in S&H.

However, she does write: “ The world must grow to the spiritual understanding of prayer. If good enough to profit by Jesus' cup of earthly sorrows, God will sustain us under these sorrows. Until we are thus divinely qualified and are willing to drink his cup, millions of vain repetitions will never pour into prayer the unction of Spirit in demonstration of power and "with signs following." “ (S&H 10:5-13)

Mrs. Eddy looks deeply into what prayer is - away from ritual and creed - to putting into practice in daily life what we understand of Spirit, God. Meditation, in its true form, could be considered synonymous with prayer requiring growth.

The ritualistic contemplation of ones breathing, or the repeating of a mantra is a human sense of meditation - a distortion of the palpable Being included within demonstration. True meditation is the “conscious, constant capacity to understand God” (S&H 209:31) - the working out in daily life of ones salvation.

This weeks lesson tells us in Psalms 119:97 “Oh how love I thy law! It is my meditation (prayer) all the day.“ This verse points us to the spiritual understanding of meditation which can allow us to “demonstrate. . . with signs following”.

Jesus, in speaking of the commandments given in the sermon on the mount, said, “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.“ (Matt 5:20) Jesus urges us away from ritual and doctrine to demonstration - away from “vain repetitions“.

“Right is radical. The teacher must know the truth himself. He must live it and love it, or he cannot impart it to others. We soil our garments with conservatism, and afterwards we must wash them clean. When the spiritual sense of Truth unfolds its harmonies, you take no risks in the policy of error. Expect to heal simply by repeating the author's words, by right talking and wrong acting, and you will be disappointed. Such a practice does not demonstrate the Science by which divine Mind heals the sick.” (S&H 452:18)

In other words, we “soil our garments” with ritual.

Jim

[lindyhop]

I once studied Thai Buddhist mediation briefly and spent a week in a retreat house in Surrey practicing it. At the admittedly shallow level of my study of the technique at that time, I did learn something that has remained useful to me over the years since then.

The technique that I learned involves focusing one's attention on one's breathing for the purpose of becoming mentally centered, and thus aware of any intrusive thoughts that would disrupt that concentration. My meditation teacher said that whenever such an intrusive thought is detected, to then focus my attention on that thought until it disappears and allows one to go back to the centered focus on the breathing. The overall purpose of the exercise is disciplining "the butterfly mind" which means becoming aware of the true content of the thoughts that flit through one's mind without being consciously acknowledged.

Most of us mentally go through life most of the time with our attention racing from one thought to another without being really aware of what we are letting ourselves think about most of the time. Taking a few minutes a day, or whenever we need them, to become centered and more aware of what we are really thinking, by whatever technique, can be a way of realizing what we mentally may have unwittingly accepted, and need to work on further, in order to be healed of a problem.

[LoraHoward]

Interesting question.

Years ago, before Christian Science came into my life, I studied various Eastern practices. Over the years since, I have thought about them in relation to Christian Science.

I have concluded that all Eastern practices include these elements: A belief that matter is real, at least in some sense. Even the concept of samsara, which can loosely be translated as "illusion," says that humans must keep coming back to it, and that there is someplace else to go. in CS, there is only God. The misunderstanding of God, which in it's broad sense is what we call "our life,"when corrected in any little way, instantly reveals only God, never matter.

Also, most practices concern "chi," or "energy", and involve it's movement or storage in various body parts--a material practice entirely unlike CS.

Third, as far as I know, all Eastern religions, even though they may speak of "oneness," actually include a belief in many human minds, who may have to get back to a bigger mind.

Finally, for now, no Eastern religion includes the most important cornerstone of Christianity and certainly CS, which is The Christ.

I realize your question concerns meditation, which is the practice of Eastern religions, as treatment is for CS.
As far as treatment goes, you might say I meditate, or discipline my mind to concentrate on God.

Regards,
Lora

[adyer]

I cannot help but appreciate the kernel of truth that can be seen in the meditation technique as lindyhop described it. The discipline of detecting and casting out intrusive thoughts hints at the metaphysics of Christian Science.

As far as what MBE said about it, I don't think of it as "permission by omission." In other words, just because she didn't mention it by name, doesn't mean her teaching does not deal with it. If the basis of CS practice is spiritual completeness and man as God's expression, then metaphysics has a deeper basis than if man were a physical being. At one point I briefly tried this meditation technique but found that it actually limited my ability to detect error because I was focused on the physical body.

I sit in my office every night to study and pray. That may seem as much like ritual as breathing meditation. But it really is about my thought. And for me it's an unfoldment.
Spiritual development germinates not from seed sown in the soil of material hopes, but when these decay, Love propagates anew the higher joys of Spirit, which have no taint of earth. Each successive stage of experience unfolds new views of divine goodness and love. (S&H 66:11-16)So as I patiently work from the basis of Mrs. Eddy's writings I find my way to the deeper and deeper things of God.

[Laurie]

"Prayer" is talking to God.

"Meditation" is listening to God.

[lindyhop]

Nicely put, Laurie.

[adyer]

I'm reminded of the description of being a CS practitioner.

First you decide you're going to work for God.

Then you decide you're going to work with God.

When that has failed, you realize your job is to watch God work.

[Laurie]

That's such a neat idea! Thanks.;)

[chismith]

If we narrow our mindset only on the concept of "Christ", chances are that it will be hard to accept Eastern's way of understanding 'Christ".

The way I see it, any time when there is a conflict or a rejection toward other forms of realization that is 'foreign' to their familiar territory, then there must be some missing pieces in their puzzle that have to be worked out. I am surprised to see this sort of reaction from this CS forum toward Eastern thought.

The Buddhist ideal aims at much much refined realm and is not for everyone, maybe only for a few who has little dust in their eyes. The 'nirvana' terminology is hard to comprehend and definitely outside the scope of the Christian world. Yet, we can only respect that ideal. I have encountered many Buddhist monastic who sold every thing and followed 'Christ' and living the holy lives. This is the kind of live that Jesus advocated to his disciples. I, for certain, that Jesus lived like a Buddhist monk.

I just found out a very striking revelation in the Buddhist history text, depicting a story about what happened when prince Sidhartha Gottama (later on named the Buddha) experienced awakening after 6 long years of deep meditation in the wilderness. What he has realized was paraphrased as this:

"wonders of wonders, all beings are endowed with perfect nature and lacking nothing, it is their attachment to 'self' is what hinders..."

At that time, the Buddha has lots of teaching to offer but was a bit reluctant due to the fact that it will be very difficult and hard to be accepted by his people at that time. However, the brahma king (equivalent to the Christian God) appeared to him and requested him to stay in the world and to teach to those who have little dust in their eyes. So, according to the legion, the Buddha decided to stay and teach because the God requested so. My personal feeling is that the Buddhists owe enormous gratitude to God for having the Buddha to offer his teachings to the world. Who knows, maybe this is to pave the way for Jesus missionary work 500 year later? So, who is to say in a critical fashion concerning the wisdom that the Buddha offers? Unless we still have the dust of narrow mindness and attachment to 'self' view?

Allow me to explain a bit with what I know after 20+ years of study of Buddha's teaching while I was also undergoing CS study. The Buddhist approach to 'mortal mind' is described in 'samsara'-- which means if you are controlled by the mortal mind (sleeping deeply in Adam's dream) you are bound by it and therefore, repeatedly making the same mistake over and over again (rebirth in the samsaric world subject to physical birth/death). However, if you are awaken from the Adam's dream then you are no longer a slave to your mortal mind (which is illusive and delusive). The Buddha's teachings provide you with the WHY's and HOW's for the awakening, which I find tremendously helpful. I intuitively know that we are inherently good, and now it is thoroughly verified. Thanks to the Buddha for his deep searching. thanks to Jesus for his mission, and thanks to MBE for sending their marvelous gift to the world.

All things are intimately connected, Buddha and Jesus are 500 years apart, but they preach the same thing, they are intertwined just like we, Eastern or Western, black or white are all interconnected. We all have the same roots, only different appearances. Why should we be fooled or intimidated by surface which has no substance?

This is the age of no more polarization but to accept one another with understanding, appreciation and compassion. Our ignorance has to shrink to the point of no more discrimination no matter how 'different' it may seem to appear.

[MikeDavis]

I don't recall Mrs. Eddy ever discussing meditation in any of her published writings, and a look through my concordances indicates she never used the words "meditate" or "meditation" in any of her books. Therefore there is nothing in her official teachings that indicates that she was opposed to meditation, nor is there anything to suggest she advocated it, either.

So unless there is something in the library archives, letters or unpublished writings, suggesting she was opposed to meditation, I would say she had no position on the subject one way or the other. That in itself seems odd, since meditation is a common practice in most religious traditions. Perhaps the term was just not in vogue in her day, and she preferred to simply call it prayer.

On page 309 of Miscellaneous Writings, Mrs. Eddy writes: "He advances most in divine Science who meditates most on infinite spiritual substance and intelligence."

Also, I have found several archival documents by Mrs. Eddy housed in The Mary Baker Eddy Library, in which she uses the word "meditate" in a positive way.

[Justlove]

Many years ago, after experiencing many, many life difficulties and finding little relief, someone suggested that I might try meditation--a particular form that is not the commonly understood practice of focusing on the breath, etc. I did so only because I had tried everything else that I knew and was so desperate for some sense of relief. I began to immediately have profound spiritual experiences. I continued in this way for a quite some time and continued to have more and more profound spiritual experiences, unlike anything that I have ever known.

I then began to attend a local Buddhist community's group meditations--this practice was more in keeping with the traditional approach. I lived in the community for a short time and continued to have profound experiences, discerning more and more through spiritual rather than physical vision and understanding. I left the community and soon after had a very profound experience where it seemed the "windows of heaven opened up," and my view of everything was irrevocably changed. My understanding, devotion and experiences continued to deepen. I was led eventually to CS, not by any person and having no former knowledge of its existence. I have studied and practiced CS for many years now but the things I learned about and through meditation practice continue to be very helpful today in my practice of CS.

First, what most refer to as meditation is really "practicing meditation." It is opening our mind to the awareness of something beyond human thoughts under more ideal circumstances--in quite, with little distractions--so that we can learn how to bring this awareness into everything that we do and wherever we seem to be. So we practice meditation, or becoming aware of that which exists beyond the physical senses, so that we see this in all circumstances and under all seeming conditions.

The idea of watching thoughts with detachment is the idea of looking upon human thoughts and seeing that these are nothing, having no power for the real thoughts, the thoughts of God are the only reality. As we learn to watch them with detachment, we see that they are no part of us and are literally nothing so we learn to no longer fear or love them, if you will. In this we withdraw any power we've given them thereby making room for God's thoughts in our awareness--the thoughts that heal.

Even in treatment, it is not human affirmations and denials that heal but the uplifted thought that allows us to discern, or see the truth right where material sense suggests something else--the affirmations and denials just help us to lift thought to a state of receptivity to the healing truth that reveals that what we formerly thought was real is nothing because God is all.

I wouldn't say that I practice the Buddhist form of meditation anymore but I was healed while I did practice in the past and now find that meditation in the form of contemplating deeply some idea of truth and then deeply listening with an expectation to "see" the truth, or spiritually discern the truth, most helpful. And what it has taught me is that it is possible to find and remain in the state of the awareness of what is real and true no matter what I am doing and where I seem to be and that this is really the call and not only to seek it when I have or someone else appears to have a problem. This does seem to require a great deal of devotion and effort and is a continual practice.

[jazzrascal]

"He advances most in divine Science who meditates most on infinite spiritual substance and intelligence."

Miscellaneous Writings (309:12) by Mary Baker Eddy

Oops, I didn't see that Mike Davis had already posted this...it is one of my favorite quotes from Mrs. Eddy's writings.

[mhnlm]

Hi John:
If one considers that "meditation" is frequesntly presumed to be initiated by a "person" a "separate entity," in order to become one with a "bigger Entity", or is the way one mind "listens" to another Mind -- we can appreciate how it is contradictory to Chrsitian Science Practice, which acknowldges and acepts only ONE Mind.

Respectful regards,
Michael
):->

[JudyRae]

Hi John,

Thanks for starting this interesting thread! To return to your original question:

There are many types of meditation (including just sitting quietly and pondering a spiritual idea).

What kind of meditation was Mrs. Eddy opposed to, and why? How was she familiar with the practice and what was the reason for her opposition?



As others have pointed out, rather than being opposed to it, Mary Baker Eddy encourages us to meditate at a deeply spiritual level, when she says:

He advances most in divine Science who meditates most on infinite spiritual substance and intelligence. (Miscellaneous Writings 309)

However, as you write, there are many types, including totally non-spiritual meditation, which involves concentrating on the body alone and using the human mind alone. This just would not work alongside Christian Science. Of all people, Mary Baker Eddy recognised that the truth is universal and available to all:

The truth is the centre of all religion. It commands sure entrance into the realm of Love. (Science and Health 20)

Love is impartial and universal in its adaptation and bestowals. It is the open fount which cries, "Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters." (Science and Health 13)

God is universal; confined to no spot, defined by no dogma, appropriated by no sect. (Miscellaneous Writings 150)


I have several friends from all hues of religious and spiritual understanding and recognise that the stilling of thought, the slowing down of mental “chatter” they experience from meditation is something I could certainly learn from! In a way, it is a getting rid of mortal mind’s constant interruptions and false claims!

But Laurie, what I have been told by some of my friends of different spiritual perspectives, is that rather than meditation being “listening to God” (as you describe it) it is emptying thought of everything to find the place of emptiness, stillness, peace, no-thingness.

That to me, is like wiping the blackboard clean, rather like the denial of the claims of matter as a step in a Christian Science treatment. But that denial alone doesn’t bring healing, we need the affirmation, the understanding of the truth as the next step.

A few months ago, a young man who had experienced a life-changing healing was interviewed on Christian Science Sentinel Radio and he acknowledged that his spiritual journey was what prepared him for Christian Science to come to him and for his healing to happen so naturally and quickly. A very large part of that was meditation, which enabled him to separate from the constant pain he was in.

He had explored many different spiritual practices and tried many different therapies to no avail. Finally, as he had been told he was dying, he decided to totally focus on spiritual life. He said that through meditation he was able to be: “Undisturbed amid the jarring testimony of the material senses,..” (Science and Health p 306) and to “Look away from the body into Truth and Love,….” (Science and Health 260)

He realised through this that the body with pain and suffering was not the eternal and spiritual. He had always been looking for something better and higher throughout his life and it all helped prepare his thought for when Christian Science found him and he then found the answers he thought he would only find after death. So, meditation was a hugely important part of his spiritual journey as it prepared his thought to accept Christian Science, but it didn’t bring him healing.

I also asked a friend about this, who during his spiritual search, was a Buddhist for a while, and to me, his answer sums it up. He said: “When I was a Buddhist, I used to try to empty my mind, to find nothingness. Now I am a Christian Scientist, I let God’s All-ness fill my being. I know that God is my Mind and His ideas are substance and All.”

JudyRae

[jazzrascal]

Hi John:
If one considers that "meditation" is frequesntly presumed to be initiated by a "person" a "separate entity," in order to become one with a "bigger Entity", or is the way one mind "listens" to another Mind -- we can appreciate how it is contradictory to Chrsitian Science Practice, which acknowldges and acepts only ONE Mind.

Respectful regards,
Michael
):->

Reasoning that way, you could say the same thing about prayer...I think we have to be careful not to talk just in absolute terms, but to consider the human situation as well.

[mhnlm]

I'm glad you brought that up, because actually, that IS the point regarding "Prayer" as well.

The defintion in the Textbook of Prayer is:

"a spiritual understanding of Him, an unselfed love." (S&H 1:3-4)

This indicates that "Prayer" is "His" - God's, understanding -- obviously of Himself ...
That understanding is not "unselfish" but rather it is without ANY sense of another "self" -- whether calling itself "one's self" or "another."

She further emphasizes Prayer to be:

"deep and conscientious protests of Truth," (S&H 12:13-14)

She tells us:

"The Lord's Prayer is the prayer OF Soul, not of material sense." (S&H 14:22-24)


This is consistent with the passage:

"It is Truth's knowledge of its own infinitude which forbids the genuine existence of even a claim to error." (No & Yes 30:18-20)

Could anything other than the ONE Mind that IS Love be the Source of what we have learned to call "prayer?"

I think we have to be careful to not confuse Science with other "religious sects" which are all about the so-called "human expereince" -- which, incidentally, Mrs. Eddy classifies as "mythology."

"the human mind and body ARE myths." (S&H 150:32-1)

By all means, feel free to take C.S. in the way that seems to work for you, but please don't discourage others from taking Mrs. Eddy at her word:

"Christian Science is absolute; it is neither behind the point of perfection nor advancing towards it; it is at this point and must be practised therefrom.
Unless you fully perceive that you are the child of God, hence perfect, you have no Principle to demonstrate and no rule for its demonstration. By this I do not mean that mortals are the children of God, — far from it. In practising Christian Science you must state its Principle correctly, or you forfeit your ability to demonstrate it." (My 242:5-14)

Respectful regards,
Michael
):->

[imjim]

What kind of meditation was Mrs. Eddy opposed to, and why? How was she familiar with the practice and what was the reason for her opposition?

I’ve often contemplated over the years the meaning and utilization of what I understand “meditation” to be.

Following is an excerpted definition, taken from www.dictionary.com (an excellent resource in my experience):

Meditation: "discourse on a subject," " to think over," "to measure," "continuous calm thought upon some subject"

“Discourse on a subject” could also be rendered “talking with God”;
“To think over” could be rendered “prayerfully attending”;
“To measure” might also mean “weighing the quality of a thought”;
“Continuous calm thought” could be considered akin to “whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Phil 4:8)

Meditation, in it’s highest form, in it’s true form, brings us closer to God. It helps us to attain at-one-ment with the true spiritual idea; man in God’s image and likeness.

Meditation, for me, is synonymous with prayer.

Mrs. Eddy has this to say about prayer:
S&H 5:22 “Prayer is not to be used as a confessional to cancel sin. Such an error would impede true religion. Sin is forgiven only as it is destroyed by Christ,--Truth and Life. If prayer nourishes the belief that sin is cancelled, and that man is made better merely by praying, prayer is an evil. He grows worse who continues in sin because he fancies himself forgiven.” The same could be said about meditation.

The Bible tells us:
Psalms 1:2 But his (a righteous man‘s) delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he “meditate” day and night.

We are admonished to “pray without ceasing” and, as the foregoing passage from Psalms tells us, we should “meditate” without ceasing. I understand this to be saying that the two ideas run in tandem.

S&H 512:20 “Mortal mind inverts the true likeness, and confers animal names and natures upon its own misconceptions. Ignorant of the origin and operations of mortal mind,--that is, ignorant of itself,--this so-called mind puts forth its own qualities, and claims God as their author . . .”

This inversion spoken of, with it’s “misconceptions,” being “ignorant of itself,” would distort the divine essence of what meditation truly is. Meditation, like prayer, reduced to a ritual or human system is a distortion.

S&H 120:7 “Science reverses the false testimony of the physical senses, and by this reversal mortals arrive at the fundamental facts of being.” Science removes a false sense of what meditation is and we arrive at the true conception. When this happens, meditation can become a vital part in our lives.

Mrs. Eddy used the word meditation rarely, but her writings show that the true, the non-inverted conception of what meditation is, abounded within her work.

Hope this helps,
Jim

[adyer]

It might help to compare this with the subject of physical manipulation in healing. As Mrs. Eddy became clearer in her discovery of divine Science, she learned that touching the patient during treatment not only was not a help but became a hindrance. It could not be considered neutral or optional. She explains it like this in page 180 of Science and Health:

When you manipulate patients, you trust in electricity and magnetism more than in Truth; and for that reason, you employ matter rather than Mind. You weaken or destroy your power when you resort to any except spiritual means.
It may not be clear that one is trusting matter, but her work revealed to her that this was indeed the case.

Likewise when considering meditation, the question should always be, To what extent am I relying on some material condition to cause or even facilitate a spiritual state of thought? Matter can do nothing. It is our belief that must be changed.

[Jael]

It might help to compare this with the subject of physical manipulation in healing. As Mrs. Eddy became clearer in her discovery of divine Science, she learned that touching the patient during treatment not only was not a help but became a hindrance. It could not be considered neutral or optional. She explains it like this in page 180 of Science and Health:


It may not be clear that one is trusting matter, but her work revealed to her that this was indeed the case.



I realize that this thread is about mediation, but based on the above comment, I wonder what Jesus must have known about human touch. In Luke 4: 40-41, it states, "Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.

And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ."

Human touch is incredibly powerful. Think of hugs you receive and hugs you give. Yes there's an exchange of electricity, but it doesn't diminish the love we feel for the person we hug. I think the same is true when we touch someone who is ill. The touch conveys all the love we feel for that person. Isn't that what God's love is all about? Is that what we are suppose to demonstrate to all we come in contact with?

[adyer]

I realize that this thread is about mediation, but based on the above comment, I wonder what Jesus must have known about human touch. In Luke 4: 40-41, it states, "Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.

And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ."

The question is not whether it is wrong to touch another but whether you believe physical touch performs the healing work.

There is never a doubt that physical affection can be a wonderfully loving gesture, and I'm sure that Mrs. Eddy followed suit.

[Jael]

The question is not whether it is wrong to touch another but whether you believe physical touch performs the healing work.

I do believe in some circumstances that physical touch performs the healing work. Think of a child who skins their knee or is embarrassed by someone. Once the scare/embarrassment is over, all they want is for their mother to hold them and love them. I can think of several incidences from my childhood when my mother's touch healed so many things.

I think mother's empathy and recognition of my feelings whether it was pain or humilation not only healed me, but created a stronger bond between us. If she had asked me to deny my feelings or change my thought, I don't think I would have felt validated as a person or perhaps even loved. I feel so blessed to be able to feel all emotions whether it's happiness or pain,

[NancyJ]

That's where CS kind of scares me a bit, when I read accounts of Moms ignoring a cut, or bruise and saying it really doesn't exist. But I also have read articles where adults who grew up in a CS homes really are grateful for the healings, etc...and CS all through their childhood.
Maybe the cases I read about were extremes, to be fair, one author is very bitter towards CS.
As someone trying to learn about CS, I prefer to stay somewhere in the middle, not extreme one way or the other. From what I gather on the boards, that is respected by CS, and each person is on their journey.

[NYCtown]

Hi Nancy --

Ignoring a problem isn't being true to Christian Science.... I grew up in a home with two Christian Science parents. They never ignored my problems, but always prayed with and for me and sought the help of a Christian Science practitioner when necessary. I'm happy to say that my brother, sister, and I always had incredibly quick healings. And there was never a need to seek medical attention. We lived sandwiched in between two medical doctors. They knew we were Christian Scientists and they kept a watchful eye on us. When they had concerns, they voiced them. And my parents prayed -- if they weren't already! Healing always took place.

As a mother now myself, I want the best care possible for my daughter, and frankly, that's God's care. My daughter's father is not a Christian Scientist so there have been plenty of times where we've sought medical treatment for his sake. He and I made that deal before I was even pregnant and I'm more than happy to do what it takes for him to feel comfortable. He's a dad who loves his daughter! But I can't tell you the times that she's been healed on the way to the pediatrician's -- a wasted doctor's fee, to be sure, but worth it. ;)

It's important to take care of immediate human needs even while knowing that the problem itself is essentially unreal. That's what a Christian Science nurse does, after all. You mentioned ignoring a bruise and it reminded me of a really lovely healing my daughter had when she was quite young. The bruise was severe, but it wasn't possible to seek medical attention right away, so I turned to God with all my heart. And I comforted my daughter as best I could. The healing was published as a testimony in the Christian Science Sentinel and you can read it here, if you want: http://www.spirituality.com/tte/article_display.jhtml?http://tinyurl.com/3kdvmv

You are so right to take steps that are comfortable to you. You don't need to be afraid of Christian Science. The way someone else lives it isn't the way you have to live it. Step by step you'll figure out what's right for you in any given moment.

[NYCtown]

Hi Nancy --

Ignoring a problem isn't being true to Christian Science.... I grew up in a home with two Christian Science parents. They never ignored my problems, but always prayed with and for me and sought the help of a Christian Science practitioner when necessary. I'm happy to say that my brother, sister, and I always had incredibly quick healings. And there was never a need to seek medical attention. We lived sandwiched in between two medical doctors. They knew we were Christian Scientists and they kept a watchful eye on us. When they had concerns, they voiced them. And my parents prayed -- if they weren't already! Healing always took place.

As a mother now myself, I want the best care possible for my daughter, and frankly, that's God's care. My daughter's father is not a Christian Scientist so there have been plenty of times where we've sought medical treatment for his sake. He and I made that deal before I was even pregnant and I'm more than happy to do what it takes for him to feel comfortable. He's a dad who loves his daughter! But I can't tell you the times that she's been healed on the way to the pediatrician's -- a wasted doctor's fee, to be sure, but worth it. ;)

It's important to take care of immediate human needs even while knowing that the problem itself is essentially unreal. That's what a Christian Science nurse does, after all. You mentioned ignoring a bruise and it reminded me of a really lovely healing my daughter had when she was quite young. The bruise was severe, but it wasn't possible to seek medical attention right away, so I turned to God with all my heart. And I comforted my daughter as best I could. The healing was published as a testimony in the Christian Science Sentinel and you can read it here, if you want: http://www.spirituality.com/tte/article_display.jhtml?http://tinyurl.com/3kdvmv

You are so right to take steps that are comfortable to you. You don't need to be afraid of Christian Science. The way someone else lives it isn't the way you have to live it. Step by step you'll figure out what's right for you in any given moment.
Someone let me know that that link doesn't work. Maybe this one will:

http://www.spirituality.com/tte/article_display.jhtml?ElementId=/repositories/shcomarticle/Jan2006/1136315770.xml&ElementName=She%20couldn't%20stumble%20out%20of%20 God's%20love

[imjim]

I realize that this thread is about mediation, but based on the above comment, I wonder what Jesus must have known about human touch. - - - Human touch is incredibly powerful.

In the time of Jesus, people who were sick or had mental disease were often considered “unclean” - Matt 10:1 tells us - “And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.”

Since olden times, lepers were kept separate from society - Leviticus 13:45 - “And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.” Persons with mental problems were ostracized and made to live in desolate surroundings - Matt 8:28 - “And when he (Jesus) was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs. . .”

A person being “unclean” was certainly something Jesus dealt with daily. His touching of someone deemed unclean had a many pronged motive. To the Jews, to touch someone who was unclean meant ritual cleansing afterward and provoked the horror of contaminating one’s self or loved ones. Touching a sick or unclean person was an act that defied logic and shook thinking to the core.

S&H 420:28 tells us - “If it becomes necessary to startle mortal mind to break its dream of suffering, vehemently tell your patient that he must awake. Turn his gaze from the false evidence of the senses to the harmonious facts of Soul and immortal being. Tell him that he suffers only as the insane suffer, from false beliefs.” - - - In like manner, Jesus act of touch “startled” the minds of men to a new way of thinking - to rise above themselves somewhat and awake to a higher calling.

While Jesus didn't always touch, this act of compassion confronted directly the beliefs, creeds, and doctrines of the time.

- - - Moses was motivated to put his hand inside his cloak removing it covered with leprosy (Ex. 4:6) and making it clean by the same simple process - his acts showing the ultimate fallacy of sickness.
- - - Jesus was motivated to act in direct contrast to prevalent theory when touching unclean people - his acts showing the ultimate fallacy of sickness.
- - - Mrs. Eddy’s experience and motives taught her that spiritual healing need not be achieved by manipulating physical circumstances but by relying wholly on God - her acts showing the ultimate fallacy of sickness.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 tells us - “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:”

S&H 454:14 tells us - “Love inspires, illumines, designates, and leads the way. Right motives give pinions to thought, and strength and freedom to speech and action.”

Motive dictates speech and action - we need not be governed by aught than Love.

Hope this helps,
Jim

[NancyJ]

I want to apologize for using the word 'ignore.' After posting, I started to think it was too harsh, it really wasn't the appropriate word.
Being in person and having a discussion is different than trying to express on a message board, I would have corrected it during conversation. Message boards are helpful, though. :)
Thanks for your link and the post. I will look into it.

[awareimhere]

Though raised a Christian Scientist, I wanted to understand meditation because people praised it so highly. When instructed in meditation, I was told to slow the breath, calm and observe the thoughts, chant the mantras and do the yoga, but I wasn’t told why. It was relaxing and sounded pretty, but I didn't feel like I was accomplishing real meditataion and became fidgety, bored and unsuccessful (though I didn’t really know what success was). It wasn’t until years later that I discovered on my own the purpose of meditation.
One summer day I stood high on a hill overlooking a beautiful valley. The sky was overcast but off in the distance a single beam of light broke through and illuminated the ground below. I pondered how, even though it was overcast, there was still enough light to see well, but I wouldn’t experience the warmth and clear light of the sunbeam unless I was standing in the beam of light; in the presence of the light.
“In the presence of the Lord” is the phrase that next came to mind, and in an instant I understood something profound. Though we see evidence of God reflected all around us, we don’t experience Him/Her directly unless we are in the present. “I AM,” the name of God, is all about the now. He/Her didn’t say to Moses, my name is I WAS or I WILL BE, but I AM.
I began to notice that when I was most inspired, I was not thinking about the past or future, instead my consciousness was in the present and being in the purest elements of Love and Truth. In those moments, I understood how Love is everywhere and that it is impossible to be separated from it. It was obvious that since Truth exists, there is no place for error. I experienced that “peace that passeth understanding.” Afterwards, I found that I was mentally, emotionally and physically healthier.
Mrs. Eddy put it this way, “Become conscious for a single moment that Life and intelligence are purely spiritual, --neither in nor of matter, -- and the body will then utter no complaints.” (S&H, page 14)
But getting into the present is not such an easy thing when, for most of us, daily life is primarily focused on what I did and what I will do. Those ‘single moments’ occur all too seldom. As my understanding along this line developed, it occurred to me that one ticket to transporting my self into the present is to pay attention to things that happen in the present. It was then that I understood the purpose of meditation. The breath, the voice and the movement of the body all happen in the present. These are not just mystical rituals to do to obtain enlightenment; they are modes of transportation into the presence of the Lord. To put it succinctly, to know God, one needs to “be here now’.
Christian Science treatment is a form of presenting the Christ. Jesus was an expert at being in the presence of the Lord. Maybe “Christ-ing” is the practice of being present, actively conscious of the Law of Being, and to be a true Christian is to emulate that practice.

O how love I thy law! It is my meditation all the day. Psalm 119:97

Mary

[chismith]

That is why in meditation you forget yourself, it is not you that meditates but the mind. Nothing exists but the mind (or ultimately is the Mind).

As I dive deep into the ocean of Buddha's wisdom is when I can verify Mary Baker Eddy's sayings in Christian Science. Buddha has a very profound take on mortal existence (the Four Noble Truths). Using meditation technique helps me tremendously while getting in tune with Christian Science healing principle.

[Starlight Rider]

Mary, that was a beautiful message. It helped me a lot. I've done some reading on meditation from time to time, but your explanation was the most succinct I've read so far

You are so right that we tend to look back and analyze what we've already done, and look to the future to make sure we get it right. But so seldom are we in the present moment.

Every now and then, though, I will suddenly find my mind going dead calm. I don't know what brings it on, but suddenly I will start hearing every little sound and enjoying them, seeing every little detail and appreciating them. It is as if I'm seeing my surroundings as they really are, and it is very liberating.

[Norbu]

Hi All

I hope this is helpful to both identify similarities and differences between Buddhism and CS. Of course there is an enormous ammount of literature on the subject and one could write volumes on comparisons with CS but here is an attempt at making this as short as possible:

When asked, what meditation practice he recommended for Westerners, the Dalai Lama responded: "Single pointed concentration not much good; first study, study, study. them meditate." [It is worth poining out that this may at first appear to be quite a different stance on meditation than that taken by Zen Buddhists, Theravadin Buddhists and other Mahayana traditions of the Himalyas and the far East.]

One could say that calm abiding meditation, using an object upon which to rest the awareness, is a bit like a defragmentation program. It can help the meditator to become more aware of the way he or she thinks because there is less mental chatter. To take the analogy a little further; running a defragmentation program may help the RAM to operate more efficiently but it does not change files in the memory.

Meditation in Buddhism must be based on the recognition of the Buddha nature of all sentient beings. By applying greater awareness through meditation, the Buddhist practitioner may become more and more aware of the his/her Buddha nature.

Clearly there are some significant similarities here between CS view of the Christ and the Buddhist idea of Buddha nature.

Furthermore, one striking correlation between Buddhism and CS is that both systems do not believe in an individual soul (Please correct me if I am wrong). As far as I am aware CS is the only other religion or spiritual system that holds this position. This position combined with the philosophical rejection of a monistic ideal (God) is the defining feature of Buddhism. Clearly this is entirely different in CS. Buddhism also refutes the "nihilist" positon of belief in the self existence of a "material" universe, materialistic monism, with consciousness and meaning being merely ephemeral happenstances arising out of matter. In this respect Buddhism and CS agree.

So for the Buddhist, meditation is only one part of what is required. Having a correct philosophical understanding is also required as is having an ethical base to living. These three are strikingly similar in Buddhism and CS.

Differences and similarities can in the philosophical postions of CS and Buddhism can, at one moment make the two seem strikingly similar and at another make them seem completely different.

Like the Christian Scientist, the Budhist believes that suffering is caused by delusion and that correcting thinking, behaviour and expressing love and understanding, that delusion can be removed and the tap-root of suffering can be cut.

In Buddhism there are perhaps two other aspects to Meditation further to calm abiding which merely clarifies the picture. Insight meditation helps the pracititioner to gain an experience of the philosophical recognition that there is no "self" to be found in any thought, feeling, emotion or material substance and that all the things that we can think of are empty of self existence (I believe this performs a similar psychological function to the first commandment in many ways). The third aspect of meditation practice is to develop love and compassionate understanding to all others and oneself.

In some forms of Buddhism the idea of a deity, an ideal spiritual being is the object of devotion and all Buddhist will prostrate or bow to the ground as an act of devotion to an image of the Buddha as a representation of the true nature of Buddha nature in every sentient being.

Having grown up in CS I have found Buddhism very helpful because, for me it has resolved, what I felt were philosophical inconsistencies and provides a highly systematic approach to practice.

In the end Buddhist should recognises that all words are just that, words; and that they are just symbols of something that is really beyond words. Again Mrs Eddy recognises the indadequacy of words in a similar way. Buddhist recognise that all explainations and practices are just tools and in that all approaches to developing realisation are valid if they bring about awakened compassionate understanding.

Kind wishes

Norbu

[imjim]

There are many types of meditation (including just sitting quietly and pondering a spiritual idea).

What kind of meditation was Mrs. Eddy opposed to, and why? How was she familiar with the practice and what was the reason for her opposition?

Thanks!
John

This thread started out as a question on meditation - what it is - what it isn’t - how it was perceived by Mrs. Eddy. But, as often happens when meditation is brought up, it has morphed into a discussion of Buddhism, as if the 2 were mutually exclusive.

Mrs. Eddy didn’t have much to say about meditation - per se, but she did however have a very specific opinion on the doctrine of Buddha:

ooo“The doctrine of Buddha, which rests on a heathen basis for its Nirvana, represents not the divinity of Christian Science, in which Truth, or Christ, finds its paradise in Spirit, in the consciousness of heaven within us - health, harmony, holiness, entirely apart from limitations, which would dwarf individuality in personality and couple evil with good. It is convenient for history to record limitations and to regard evil as real, but it is impossible in Science to believe this, or on such a basis to demonstrate the divine Principle of that which is real, harmonious, and eternal - that which is based on one infinite God, and man, His idea, image, and likeness.
oooIn Science, we learn that man is not absorbed in the divine nature, but is absolved by it. Man is free from the flesh and is individual in consciousness - in Mind, not in matter. Think not that Christian Science tends towards Buddhism or any other “ism.” Per contra, Christian Science destroys such tendency.” (My 118:25 - 119:12)

Mrs. Eddy apparently considered Buddhist practices and “enlightenment” to stem from individual personality and not from individuality emanating from Spirit alone. A human opinion, not Revelation.

I find it discouraging that - within todays culture - meditation has become synonymous with Buddhist practice. Its reach is really so much higher.

Jim

[Norbu]

Dear Jim,

Main Entry: med•i•tate
Function: verb
Etymology: Latin meditatus, past participle of meditari, frequentative of medēri to remedy.
Date: 1560
intransitive verb 1 : to engage in contemplation or reflection 2 : to engage in mental exercise (as concentration on one's breathing or repetition of a mantra) for the purpose of reaching a heightened level of spiritual awareness transitive verb 1 : to focus one's thoughts on : reflect on or ponder over 2 : to plan or project in the mind : intend, purpose.

From Mirriam-Webster online dictionary.

Your quote Jim:

I find it discouraging that - within today’s culture - meditation has become synonymous with Buddhist practice.

I am afraid this is very much not the case. There are very many “New Age” approaches to meditation on offer today which may have more or less beneficial effects.

Meditation in Christianity survived in “contemplative Christianity” mainly in monastic traditions. I would also argue that much of CS practice fits the definitions above.

The other major source of meditation science comes from Indian yogic traditions (other than Buddhist). These traditions use mediation with a single point of concentration, mantras and asanas. I understand these traditions recognise the existence of “the observer” as the “unchanging self.” When this self awareness dissipates these traditions, I believe, would explain this as the individual self merging with the universal self.

Norbu