Why water baptism

[arvid]

A family member has concerns that we have not had our sons baptised with water baptism. Jesus said " repent , believe and be baptised " . What does CS teach about baptism?

[Daniel]

On page 581 in The Science and Health, Mrs. Eddy defines baptism, and on page 241:23, gives an account on "baptism of Spirit."
Also, if you go on Spirituality.com, search baptism; there are some good articles to be found. One in particular is by David M. Robertson, called "Baptism: restoration and Purification for all." Hope this helps.
Daniel

[arvid]

thanks Daniel, I'll check these up. Arvid

[adyer]

I was raised in the Baptist church and baptized at age 7. I began my study of Christian Science at age 21. I have never regretted my baptism but in fact have always found it a moving experience for its symbolism.

Having said that, being baptized by water (immersion or sprinkling) has no theological meaning in Christian Science. You aren't saved if you do or damned if you don't. I do not consider myself "more saved" because I was baptized.

[arvid]

I understand that water baptism is only a symbol of true spiritual baptism,as you have said,however in John 3:5 Jesus said " except a man be born of WATER and the spirit,he cannot enter the kingdom of God " What was Jesus saying here in regards to WATER and the Spirit ?

[LoraHoward]

Well, my understanding is that baptism is not a one-time event, but part of the New Birth, which is the gradual process of giving up materiality and having your mind formed anew.

For me, this process is not always pleasant. That is an understatement. In spite of the desire for spiritual growth, those old views just seem like...me, so there is conflict in this process.

So, I believe the water refers to tears.

[adyer]

I'm not that great of a scholar, arvid. There is, I think, an obvious allusion to John the Baptist, and I think Jesus may be honoring John's mission to bring the people into a mode of repentance and true spirituality rather than a sense of legalism that was the mode of the Pharisees. Thus, I see "born of the water" as emerging from water the same as a newborn emerging from the womb. (In other words, baptism by immersion.) It's not just clever imagery but the acknowledgment that following John was a radical departure from the political correctness of the time. Evidently allowing John to baptize you was a pretty serious commitment, tantamount to starting your life over.

I don't know the history of the act of baptismal immersion. It could be John's idea. I mean think about it: a simplistic reenactment by someone described as a simplistic man. Show that you're reborn. Let the water be your new mother and come from the womb and prove that you're willing to start over and leave your previous life behind! That's sort of how I picture it.

And it's the simplicity of the act, and the engulfing nature of the water, that I appreciated so much when I was baptized. Anyone can do it, it takes no special skill, yet its meaning is profound. From that perspective it was a totally brilliant idea whether John came up with it or not.

Being born of the Spirit, on the other hand, is not something you can see, and Jesus made the point by talking about the unpredictability of the wind. But when Jesus juxtaposed the two together -- birth by water and birth by Spirit -- it indicates to me that the human experience of birth is not limited to emergence of an infant from the mother's womb. He's telling Nicodemus that the commitment to the message of John was so serious it was AS IF you were actually born again...and was a genuine rebirth in a sense.

I often get the feeling from that passage that John's movement is still the center of attention, and that being part of it was a big deal.

[imjim]

in John 3:5 Jesus said " except a man be born of WATER and the spirit,he cannot enter the kingdom of God " What was Jesus saying here in regards to WATER and the Spirit ?

“Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it” Proverbs 16:22. I like to consider such references such as “a well spring of life” whenever the term “water” is used.

Literally speaking, water was a very necessary part of daily life. People trudged miles daily for sparse amounts of it. Hence its all encompassing importance in Jesus time.

Biologically speaking, science today considers water to be the basic building block of life and is a symbol of the possibility for the manifestation of existence. Without water, human existence is considered to be impossible.

Jesus often used symbol and metaphor to express a spiritual fact. Knowing the importance of water in daily life, how crucial to survival it was, he used that importance to point to a spiritual fact.

To the Pharisee he said, “except a man be born of the water (well spring of life) and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). To the Samaritan woman he said, “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.” (John 4:10)

Both of these accounts of Jesus using the term “water” point not to water itself but to a message behind the symbol that water represents, to Life, to Love. His words point to an all-encompassing Fluid Importance, something beyond the pale of matter, to Spirit as our ultimate source.

Interestingly enough, I was going to conclude this with “I hope this sheds some light on the subject for you.” The thought occurred to me though that “light” too is often used as a symbol.

Light could have just as easily been used by Jesus in these examples instead of water. “Except that a man be born of the light and of the Spirit he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Like water, light is often a symbol used to express a higher unfoldment or understanding.

“Let your light (love) shine” (Matthew 5:16)

Jim

[LaurieCSBug]

Originally Posted by arvid
in John 3:5 Jesus said " except a man be born of WATER and the spirit,he cannot enter the kingdom of God " What was Jesus saying here in regards to WATER and the Spirit ?

Arvid, I think the key to this sentence is the next verse, John 3:6 "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Couple this with Christ Jesus' discussion with the Samarian woman at the well:
John 4:10, 11
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water?
He then went on to reveal himself as Christ.
It is my understanding that we have to be reborn of this living water, Christ, not H20.:) Just as he explained to Nicodemus, he didn't need to be born again of his mother's flesh, but be born of the Spirit, so I believe he was referring to the living water rather than material H2O.
Love in Christ,
Laurie