Christian Science and Alcohol/Tobacco

[waterbaby]

I grew up in the CS church and it was just understood that we didn't drink/smoke (my parents and all members of our church didn't). Coming back to CS after many empty years of trying to do it my way instead of God's way, I find the stand on alcohol a bit blurry. Can anyone shed any light on that subject for me....is it still frowned upon to drink socially? Does church memebrship require no drinking/smoking? Is it individual?
Thanks.

[Laurie]

This is such a good question.

The Bible has so many references to wine. And when people try to suggest that the term "wine" really meant "grape juice" is silly since there was no refrigeration 2000 years ago. Obviously the juice would ferment.

[livinglightly]

there are alot of references to wine. And there are several places in the Bible where those followers, who have been given specific work to do, are told to abstain from any drink. In Numbers I think, the followers are told that they cannot even eat grapes.

[Laurie]

and jesus turned the water into wine. Who was he expecting to drink it.

[sparrowflies]

Yes- in prose works Mrs. Eddy has written : misc 289:2
Strong drink is unquestionably an evil, and evil cannot
3 be used temperately: its slightest use is abuse; hence
the only temperance is total abstinence. Drunkenness
is sensuality let loose, in whatever form it is made
6 manifest.

We don't use chemicals to comfort, soothe or strengthen because that implies that we need something material and not spiritual to meet the human need.

[sparrowflies]

Also, I have sometimes thought that in Bible times, perhaps wine was thought to be the purest and sfest thing to drink . But now we know that alcohol is a depressent. There were many things done in biblical days that we no longer find benefits the human.

[livinglightly]

That's a very good question!


I'm wondering if it falls into the same category as Mrs. Eddy preparing coffee for workers who came to her house.

So do you think those who lived in Jesus' time ever drank juice freshly pressed? I lived in Europe for awhile. The people there drank wine with every meal because the water was so bad. They added soda water to the wine to dilute it because they didn't want the alcohol content.

They wanted to drink, because they were thirsty. Their first preference was juice. But juice was very expensive. I don't think things have changed all that much.

[Merry1]

Yes, as sparrowflies points out, Mrs. Eddy expressed in a number of places that drinking and smoking are not compatible with the living of Christian Science, and I think abstaining from such activities is still generally considered necessary to become a church member. Nevertheless, I think it’s important to think of it not so much as a rule that has to be followed but, instead, as a choice people naturally make when they learn to understand their own lives as individual reflections of the one Mind. People drink socially for any number of reasons, but I think they are usually related to feeling insecure and inhibited around or else disconnected from others. Social drinking is supposed to loosen our inhibitions and help us more easily bond with others, but this artificially-induced personality change is at best temporary and does nothing to help us understand why we don’t need to feel insecure, inhibited, or disconnected in the first place. Christian Science, on the other hand, replaces the material model of humanity as a massive group of separate individuals with a spiritual model of one God and one creation. If all of us are reflecting and responding to the same Mind, then we are always closely connected and harmoniously working together to carry out the goals and purposes of that Mind. As we study Christian Science we find ourselves listening to, understanding, and responding to this one Mind more and more. This wipes out the feelings of insecurity and inhibition that produce a need or desire to drink, and so I think it makes sense that Christian Scientists come to find they don’t have that need or desire to drink.

[sparrowflies]

The points made by Merry1 are well taken. I guess if one is struggling with this issue, they might ask, what is this chemical going to do for me that God can't do ? When working towards better eating habits, sometimes when I feel attracted to food, I'll ask God, does this machine need more fuel or am I needing to feel comforted ? Because for me, the one Comforter of any value is God. So when I need to feel better, I can ask God to help me to feel His love in a bigger way. And when I ask, expecting to have that prayer answered, it always is.

[livinglightly]

Mary Baker Eddy defines wine as "Inspiration; understanding" She also defines it as "Error, fornication; temptation; passion."

I'm guessing what Jesus shared in the last supper, with his disciples, was inspiration and understanding.

[Laurie]

Although I don't drink (so I am not trying to justify myself in anyway), I think that there is a long way between the terms "wine" and "intoxication" just like there is a long way between the terms "food" and "gluttony". Over indulgence of any kind is wrong

[waterbaby]

I agree. The reason I brought this whole subject up is since coming back to CS I have yet to give up alcohol completely but would dearly love to. It seems incompatible with my life or what I'm striving for...that's just me. I've talked to others who are able to balance moderate alcohol consumption and digging deep into the books but for me, as my dad used to say, it just doesn't jive. So giving it up is easy right? I've read countless testimonies that state it is and the healing is effortless....I am so trying.

I made a committment today to read the entire Bible Lesson each day...not a section or 2 or just the Golden Text for a "good thought for the day" but the whole thing....quietly, purposefully and expecting healing.

Thanks for all the replies! :)

[UserX]

I also grew up in a CS church and home and my experience was also that we didn’t drink or smoke. As an adult, I found myself in many situations where an understanding of the “why” was necessary. I have found a couple things helpful that Mary Baker Eddy says in Science and Health:

“…the use of tobacco or intoxicating drinks is not in harmony with Christian Science.” (p.454). She also says, “God has endowed man with inalienable rights, among which are self-government, reason, and conscience. Man is properly self- governed only when he is guided rightly and governed by his Maker, divine Truth and Love.” (p.106).

If one’s goal is to grow spiritually and to be governed by Truth and Love (and to unite with others in this goal) then situations that might result in intoxication and loss of clear thinking and self-government would work against this progress.

As for the requirement for church membership, alcohol and smoking are not specifically mentioned, but I think one needs to pray for a spiritual understanding of the implications of the statement: “the applicant must be a believer in the doctrines of Christian Science, according to the platform and teaching contained in the Christian Science textbook, SCIENCE AND HEALTH WITH KEY TO THE SCRIPTURES, by Rev. Mary Baker Eddy.” (Church Manual)

[Laurie]

Jesus was born Jewish. He upheld Jewish tradition except when human rights were at risk or healing was needed. He turned the water into wine. Wine is a part of Jewish tradition.

It would be sad to think that Jesus would not be admited into the Christian Science Church if he applied.:(

[jade94553]

Thank you, sparrowflies, for the way you stated the issue of fuel vs. comfort. I know I eat to fill the empty hole inside of me. {I am new to CS - my only source is my Science and Health book (which reads like greek to me) and the internet which is extremely helpful. The nearest reading room is 200 miles away. I feel like a fish out of water.} If I am not matter, why do I need to eat? As you said, to fuel the machine. When I read that, I was eating a cookie. I asked God for comfort and the cookie hit the trash (I don't think I have ever thrown a cookie away!). Thank you for helping a CS newbie see a little bit more than before.

[Rainbowlove]

Would you shun me if you knew I smoked? So what about smoking? I think I could be a phenomenal CS'er if I could just quit. I seem to grasp all the ideas and turn to God for almost everything, but this one. I would never call a practitioner for other treatments for fear that they would not take my case because I smoke. I am from the rebelious years and something inside keeps telling me it's cool even though intellectually I know it's not. I just can't seem to get away from it and. Error has a strong grip on me in this. Any suggestions?

[Merry1]

Hi Rainbowlove (great name, BTW),
Yes, I have a couple of suggestions for you. First of all, if you are appreciating the good ideas you are finding in the Christian Science literature and are turning to God for almost everything, then you are well on your way so feel good about that. I don’t think Christian Scientists are going to shun people who are finding themselves drawn to Christianly Scientific ideas, no matter what challenges those individuals are facing in their quest to learn what God and man are really all about. I mean, let’s face it, none of us are walking on water just yet, so we all have more to learn, and it’s exciting to meet others who are interested in learning along with us. I don’t think that church members are likely to think it’s a good idea to accept into membership people who smoke, but if you find your study and prayers are leading you to desire church membership, you can trust that God will open the way for you. One of my favorite quotes from Science and Health says, “Love inspires, illumines, designates, and leads the way” (p 454). That sentence is so powerful for me because it shows that God doesn’t ever leave us to figure things out by ourselves. First he inspires – engenders our desire to do what is best for us and for all. Then he illumines – provides the light that allows us to see clearly what is ahead. But he doesn’t leave us with any possibility of taking the wrong path because next he designates – points out exactly which way is the right way. And even then, he doesn’t leave us to walk the path alone, but he goes with us, leading the way! Isn’t that cool? There’s no guesswork, no confusion, no way to get lost. All we have to do is recognize that God is caring for us and be willing to follow where he leads. I’ve read and heard a lot of testimonies in which people just like you were healed of the desire to smoke without even trying to be, without even noticing that it was happening, just by studying and thinking about the ideas in Science and Health. So, my suggestion is to keep doing what you are doing and see where it leads you. Wherever that is, I’m sure it will be good.
Oh, and I don’t think you should feel the least bit hesitant to call a practitioner if you feel you could use some help thinking something through. The ones that I know are far, far more loving and far less judgmental than most people. They see us for who we really are, even when we can’t see it ourselves (they really have to – I mean, it’s their job!), and I had one practitioner tell me that she sees every opportunity to do so as a privilege. Plus, it wouldn’t make sense for them to refuse to treat you because you’re struggling with something. After all, everyone they treat is struggling with something.

[Laurie]

I would never call a practitioner for other treatments for fear that they would not take my case because I smoke.

Well, **IF** a practitioner wouldn't take your case because you smoked, it would be very "unChristian" in the more traditional sense of the word. Remember, Jesus helped the adultress, ate with sinners, etc.

[Jael]

Not everyone who drinks wine does so to get drunk or to become less inhibited. I drink wine because I enjoy the different flavors that are achieved by using different grapes, the type of container that wine ferments in, ie. oak, and the just the overall beauty of the drink and how it can enhance the food that's served along with it. The drink itself is not bad, it's how it is used or abused that should be questioned

The same argument could be made for coffee or chocolate. Many CSers drink coffee and I'm sure most eat chocolate. Both are stimulents. Should they be band?

[newunfoldment]

Addictions can be healed through the study and radical reliance on Christian Science.

The Practitioner's "seeing and beholding of the perfect man" detaches the hold of the addiction, and sets one free, to be attracted to SPIRIT alone, and not to be distracted by spirits [or any other false attachments].

[Daniel]

Merry1

Thanks for the breakdown of the quote: "Love inspires....leads the way."(p.544:18) S&H
That is one of my mom's favorites. I also love the following sentence.

Daniel

[Daniel]

correction-p.454:18

[pattyp]

Science and Health wisely points out the inconsistency of relying on tobacco or intoxicants ("strong drink" per Romans 17) for comfort, pleasure or support; drugs for pain or pleasure; or even reliance on a cup of tea or coffee to jump-start one's day.

But it is only through spiritual development that these hugely popular fall-backs begin to lose their hold in one's experience.

While any of the above "reliances" would have prevented an otherwise sincere student from being admitted to membership in a Christian Science church 50 years ago, that is less likely today.

It is entirely up to each branch church to determine its membership requirements. Some may still hold to the traditional line, but other branch churches have widened their circle to include a broader membership base, reasoning that it is more 'good neighborly' to nurture such students within their healing community, patiently supporting their spiritual progress as old habits drop away, instead of requiring that certain (sometmes very challenging) demonstrations be made before an individual is qualified for such membership.

The Bible teaches that "The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." (Romans 17)

[W359]

And what of taking no thought of what we shall drink? If we drink to unwind, that's admitting power to matter right there. But what if we, say, just have a beer because we like beer, like we drink soda because we like soda?

-W359

[adyer]

And what of taking no thought of what we shall drink? If we drink to unwind, that's admitting power to matter right there. But what if we, say, just have a beer because we like beer, like we drink soda because we like soda?

-W359

I don't think we can disavow our belief about what is in a drink and then compare one drink with another because we conveniently leave this out of our explanation (whether to another person or silently to ourselves).

Alcoholic drink has no power. Mortal mind creates its own conditions.

When Jesus talked about adultery he talked about even lusting after it. This is because by the time the decision is made, the thing to be avoided has already been indulged. Even if someone were prevented for some reason from consummating an adulterous liaison, the adultery is first committed in thought, so the liability for the outward action still persists.

By the same token, a desire for something that has alcohol or caffeine is the indulgence already committed. Whether you drink it or not is really beside the point.

This doesn't make anyone a bad person, but it merely points out that if we want to be free we must not condemn ourselves for what we do but realize that the preliminary thought can be healed. This is the grace we hope for and that makes our lives worth living and human experience redeemable.

[MikeDavis]

Here is a link to a thread on this topic at the TMC Youth Fourms:

http://www.tmcyouth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1189

[JudyRae]

I grew up in the CS church and it was just understood that we didn't drink/smoke (my parents and all members of our church didn't). Coming back to CS after many empty years of trying to do it my way instead of God's way, I find the stand on alcohol a bit blurry. Can anyone shed any light on that subject for me....is it still frowned upon to drink socially?....
Thanks.

Hi Waterbaby,

I just thought I'd add some of my own observations here. As others have written, there is nothing in MBE's stand on alcohol that could be described as "blurry"! Again, as others have said, we do not stand in judgement. Everyone is at a different point of their journey and we should support each individual's growth in understanding, not condemn them!

OK

1) How can we pray and help ourselves and others if our thought is blurred by alcohol? (that is where the blurry comes in!)

I remember once, when I was thirsty, being handed a drink that I thought was orange juice and I knocked it back and then tasted it and realised it was a whole cocktail of different spirits plus champagne. I hated that feeling of my thinking not being clear, of being out of control. Having said that, I quickly saw through the belief that alcohol has power, but we don't want to have to do that all the time - and could we if we had willingly taken it?

2) If someone came to you for prayerful help to be freed from say, alcoholism, or one of the many diseases attributed to alcohol abuse like kidney disease or sclerosis of the liver, how could you possibly help them, if you were mentally in agreement with and financially supporting the alcohol industry in any way?

3) Dependence on any material prop like alcohol, tobacco or narcotics can not be overcome through human will power. You don't have to leave them, grow spiritually and they will leave you.

When I was growing up, I witnessed a transformation in the life of a man who was a foul-mouthed and physically abusive alcoholic. He had in desperation, because of an acute physical problem that the doctors could not help, asked my mother to pray for him as he did not think he would live through the night. She is not a practitioner and her first thought was "How could I possibly pray for him when I find him so repulsive?"

She then asked herself what it was about him that she found so repulsive and realised it was his seeming lack of purity. She was awake most of the night, just praying to realise his innate innocence and purity as a child of God. In the morning he rang and said that he didn't know what she had done, but he had slept like a baby and was now well.

That was not the end of the story. Before he went to office every morning, he always had a double scotch (his first of many) and a cigar. He put the glass to his lips and tried to drink, he couldn't, it tasted like poison. Then he tried to smoke the cigar, but that tasted like poison too. For three days he left them beside his armchair and kept trying. Finally, he rang my mother and said "How dare you heal me of drinking and smoking - I did not ask you to do that!" My mother replied that it was nothing to do with her, that God had healed him and after that, he went through this amazing transformation and became a student of Christian Science. His family at last had a kind and loving father and husband and I met someone who used to work for him after his healing and she said that the office staff always used to refer to the "old boss" and the "new boss".

I have read many testimonies where the drink or drugs or tobacco cravings just left the individual as soon as they grew spiritually. That's why it is not consistent with Christian Science - it is not part of our true selfhood.

JudyRae