Is God a delusion or real? If there is a God, what is S/He like?

[Susieee]

Is there a God - or is God a delusion? If there is a God, what is S/He like? Why does it matter whether we know God or not? What if our thoughts about God are different from what others believe? Those seem to be some of the big questions out there these days.

I know every time I've paused to do as the Bible says in Isa. 46:10 - "Be still, and know that I am God:..." it has been very helpful and healing for me. It certainly was helpful and healing for many people in the Bible and other Scriptures as well. So, back to my list of questions...

Knowing that God is Love, and my tender Father-Mother has always been a great start for me in this direction of thinking... any other thoughts people would like to share here?

[livinglightly]

Well, when I think about this question I wonder if we realize how "profound" the existence of "Good" is. Beauty, intelligence, compassion, honesty, order -- God is the essence of the existence of these things.

I know at times that even beauty and goodness may seem to look "dull" or meaningless. Cynicism envades our thinking and even tries to make good seem worthless and meaningless.

For me, that is where the Christ comes in. The Christ is that which touches our thought, makes brilliant the profound nature of goodness - even the realness of God.

I read parts of the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. It was interesting that in one part of the book he said something to the effect that there are those people who are trying to change what the definition of what God is, from a personal being -to something completely spiritual - those people are not really talking about God.
For Hawkins, the God he rejects, and the only God he wants to allow, is the traditional old creator in the sky.
So in effect, as I read his book, I realized his argument against God is an arguement against the existence of a supreme physical man like something. I can understand that.

He implied that those of us who have come to know God as being completely Spirit, the Principle of existence -- Love itself -- He doesn't really have an argument against.

So, I believe, the notion of a big man up in the sky,:cool: experimenting with matter, and mortals - that is a delusion. But the humble desire to witness Love's control over every moment of your life - and the good that results from that desire ---- That is not a delusion.

[Evening Sun]

[COLOR="Purple"]Richard Dawkins and millions of others who are honestly and earnestly questioning the existence of God are actually on the very path that will lead them to--not just some blind, unreasonable faith in a human-like God--but to the divine Spirit, divine intelligence that creates, governs, maintains, sustains the entire universe, including every one of us in it. I honestly believe that no one can question the existence of God and not eventually find an understanding of God's existence that makes sense to them.

While on this search many try to find God through exploring what and why other people believe in God. And that's when they come up against brick walls because what someone else believes may not make a whole lot of sense to someone else.

To me God has to be experienced. And once you have that experience yourself, it no longer matters what anyone else believes or thinks. You no longer need to look to anyone else for confirmation because in the very core of your being you absolutely know that God exists. You then move forward proving that indisputable fact--not just holding to it as theory but putting into practice God's existence in your life.

An incredible adventure that is in store for every single one!

[royan]

:LOL:

The only real thing in life is GOD.

[Aslan]

:LOL:

The only real thing in life is GOD.

"All is infinite Mine and its infinite manifestation."

[adyer]

I wonder why the question does not begin, Since God is real...

To me, anyway, the question whether God is a delusion is not a neutral stance to be taken in one of two directions. It is not a fork in the road but down a road of doubt...and merely dons the disguise of neutrality.

Alternatively I might begin by asking, How can God NOT be real...

[Aslan]

I
To me, anyway, the question whether God is a delusion is not a neutral stance to be taken in one of two directions. It is not a fork in the road but down a road of doubt...and merely dons the disguise of neutrality.

The notion that rational thought questions the existence of God is a fallacy. Rational thought pulls one from doubt into light.


We are all sculptors, working at various forms, moulding and chiseling thought. (S&H 248:12-13)

Implying that a young sculptor's question, put to those who profess to be more experienced in the art, is asked with an agenda and at the same time is irrational does little to help them advance their skills. It may, however, sour them on the pursuit of sculpting or cause them to turn to another school of the art.

Sincerely,
Aslan

[adyer]

[INDENT]Implying that a young sculptor's question, put to those who profess to be more experienced in the art, is asked with an agenda and at the same time is irrational does little to help them advance their skills. It may, however, sour them on the pursuit of sculpting or cause them to turn to another school of the art.I can see I should have explained this earlier.

This is not to call anyone irrational. The question is a logical conundrum.

If God is a delusion then any consideration of whether he is not is, itself, delusional.

Put another way:
If I hypothesize that God might be a delusion and then consider whether this is correct, I must first consider the possibility that God is NOT a delusion. But if he IS, then any possibility that he is NOT a delusion is delusional. Therefore I cannot rationally answer whether God is a delusion.

It's like the Chinese finger trap. You cannot continue to pull because it is designed to entrap you in the act of pulling. You can only escape by acting in a way that at first seems counter-intuitive.

In the case of whether God is a delusion, one cannot retain the possibility that God is, indeed, a delusion because it is a conclusion designed to undermine any other consideration. The question is not a neutral position but is a logical ambush. One cannot rationalize the answer but must act on faith...spiritual understanding. Back out of the dead end.

[Aslan]

If I hypothesize that God might be a delusion and then consider whether this is correct, I must first consider the possibility that God is NOT a delusion. But if he IS, then any possibility that he is NOT a delusion is delusional. Therefore I cannot rationally answer whether God is a delusion.


Can you please explain this statement? And could you also give me your honest assessment of how well you think it might elucidate the teachings of Christian Science to someone new to the study of this religion?

Regards,
Aslan

[adyer]

I'm not sure what else to say. To ask if God exists is one thing. To ask if God is a delusion is not really asking about God but goes to the questioner's state of mind. I like what Evening Sun said:

To me God has to be experienced. And once you have that experience yourself, it no longer matters what anyone else believes or thinks. You no longer need to look to anyone else for confirmation because in the very core of your being you absolutely know that God exists. You then move forward proving that indisputable fact--not just holding to it as theory but putting into practice God's existence in your life.

[Norbu]

From a slightly different point of view:

God means and has meant many things to many different people at different times and even at different times in their lives. It is, surely, a little difficult to consider the existence of God if there is not first some agreement about what God is thought to be.

Mrs Eddy defines God as the seven synonyms. Each one of these synonyms can be investigated by contemplation.

You can then ask; Does Mind exist? Then you need to define Mind. In CS the answer to this might be that it is a synonym for God! Well that has the problem of it being a tautology and isn't so helpful to the person asking the question: "Does God exist?."

After many years of asking: "What exists?" I came to the conclusion that the only irrefutable answer could be: "Something exists." Following this point I had to recognise that existence was only possible to be recognise through awarness. I offer you this as a point of reference.

This point of reference is more about the question of the meaning of the idea of established being; So many things we can name or identify for moments; they are made, they exist, they disintegrate. What we call them depends on shared conventions of language. When we try to define them we end up creating imaginary categories that describe sets of characteristics. When we try to identify these characteristics we again end up trying to describe them in secondary terms and so on. We cannot really grasp the meanings or finally identify the object that we are naming.

We fall back to having to recognise that the words are conventions. They represent things in the way that we understand them to be. We know that something exists; we have our own awareness as a final place of certainty to aswage the gnawing doubt that comes from the question of what is or isn't.

From my point of view, which I should make quite clear, is not the point of view held in CS; we cannot know absolute reality through words, we can only use words as signposts on the way to coming to know what "really is."

We can then say that the word "God" is a provisional means to lead us into a deeper understanding that is beyond the words we are able to grasp, but we should be careful not to project our own personal self referential questions onto this means of leading us to understanding. The question of God's existence begins to be a little less meaningful.

Norbu

[Aslan]

Norbu;

As to the Oneness of Mind, it came to me last night that the issue of one's concept of God was essential to the consideration of this question. I had thought about writing a post along the same lines as yours. But as this thread had become just banter between myself and ayder, and I didn't know if the originator of the thread (or anyone else for that matter) was still following it, I wasn't sure if I it was worth posting.

Clearly this is an idea that the One Mind wants asserted here. Thank you.
Aslan

[Andre Mincho]

By God we mean Supreme Being, Creator, the Source of existence, the Author and Origin of all. Does God exist? The answer lies in totality of conscious experience recorded in sacred books such as the Bible. Harmony, life, health, spirit, mind are attributed to our being in relations with God, if God is taken for reality. Positive and negative experiences comprise totality of our knowledge about God. They shift a question about God's existence toward constant openning and discovery of what God is and what does not belong to God.
Thus God is not an idol, not a material structure somewhere out there, but Spirit embracing and transcending all. God is not an anthropomorphic human-like creature with self-centered volition and arbitrary choice, but Infinite Love and Divine Mind based upon expression of an idea of what God is. God cannot be created, but is the Source of all creation. God is Infinite Personality in which Image we are created. God is Impersonal Principle and Moral Law where Truth, Life and Spirit overcome lies of mind and false material notions of ourselves. God is Oneness of all and is the Ground for all oneness. The Word God indicates our realization and separation of God from other categories and phenomena.The concept of God constantly unfolds in our knowledge and experience bringing us closer to Reality of God. False notions of God separate us from Truth and real God, and we call them mortal mind and false self. Mortal mind is the source of mistaken beliefs, defenses, sinfulness, sickness and death in our life. Mortal mind has no reality before the Truth about God and Divine Mind which destroy mortal mind exposing its false foundation. Despite the fact that God is infinite, our oneness with God brings all magnitude of Spirit, Eternal Life, Beauty and Christ to any finite interval of our existence.
That is why the question whether God is a delusion or reality must be reformulated as what is real and what is delusional in God.