Christian Science vs Pentecostalism

[Pookey]

I have been studing Christrian Science now for 13 years and have come upon a sticky situation.

I have recently moved out of my apartment due to financial difficulties and have moved in with a friend of mine who happens to be a member of the Pentecostal church. We have had many discussions about the differences, but I would like to keep in mind the similarities. My challenge in this is that my friend insists that I am wrong and am ignorant and that the world is coming to an end and I will not go to heaven. I know this is error talking but still it is a struggle for me. I know she is a child of God and I love her as Gods child, but I still feel a twing of pain when error speaks.:confused:

What does one do when faced with another religion? How can I communicate?

[Pinjabba]

Pookey,

I have had many evangelical Christians at my work and I love them dearly. But whenever I engaged in conversations about the Bible, religion, Christianity, etc., things became unsettling. It came to me to stop these discussions with old theology. It wasn't worth it to get into the mud with old dogma. Christian Science is a higher revelation. This made things easier with my colleagues at work. We could love what we do and not get dragged into something we'd regret later.

Your roommate should respond to your love and help reduce fear.

[csstudent]

I had a similar discussion with a Lutheran friend who browsed a "Science and Health" I'd given her husband. I truly wanted to have a discussion with her but when she told me my soul was condemmed I just thanked her for her love in wanting to warn me of my dangers, and hoped she'd read the book more closely. I guess, aside from praying to know your friends perfection in the eyes of God, that your best recourse is to stop any kind of argument and agree to disagree about your beliefs in silence. You and your friend are a demonstration of love.

[Pookey]

Thank so much for your thoughts. We are all Gods children and we are all loved.

[Kate]

Hi!

I had something similar once.. and I asked a Christian Science practitioner what to do and she said.. whats really important is what is true. So when people tell us things, we can know they are not true. :D

[Courtenay]

Hi Pookey,

I also had a tough time of it when I first became a Christian Scientist and my parents (non-religious) were convinced I'd been "sucked into a cult". Not quite the same as someone trying to "save" me from hellfire, but they were still doing it out of fear for my welfare. I found the best thing was to just avoid bringing religious topics up in conversation, and carry on loving them as usual and not getting too hung up on "why can't they see and respect that it means something to me?!" I don't think their opinion of Christian Science has changed, but we still have a good relationship and no-one makes nasty comments about That Weirdo Religion any more. If Mum and Dad only knew it, learning about everyone's true spiritual nature has actually made me appreciate them more!

One of the things I most love about Christian Science is that it shows us that God is universal, and the Christ - "the true idea voicing good, the divine message from God to men speaking to the human consciousness" (S&H p. 332) - is speaking to EVERYONE in a way they can understand... whether or not they're listening yet! I find it helps to remember that when confronted with situations like this. As Kate also said, what matters is what's true - no amount of human dogma or opinion can ever change that. Just think... right now, even while your friend and others are clinging to this angry-God-sending-all-sinners-to-hell theology (and they only cling to it out of fear), God is actually beholding them and everyone as His/Her perfect reflection - and loving them more than they could ever imagine. If they only knew :D ... and they WILL eventually, because we all will - because that's all the truth there is. So just remember that whenever this business upsets you - and keep on loving. ;)

Much love,
Courtenay

[NancyJ]

I have a close friend who is Mormon, another who is Pentecostal, another one who is a JW. They are very devoted to their churches.

They have invited me to church services, or functions, and I have met some wonderful people there who are trying to follow God.

They each believe their church is the true church.

I don't get into theological discussions, to be honest, anymore with them, it reached a point where it came in the way of the friendship, and the friendship was more important. This also means we don't do as much together because they are spending a lot of time at their churches.

I think God looks at the love each person has in their heart for Him and how they love their neighbor. They could think I'm blind to salvation, but if they look into their hearts of hearts, they will see the answer. Love is at the top of the list, IMO, with God.

I also think people watch how you live your daily life. Being inspired by God with His Love speaks louder than words.

Living with someone who has different, and strong beliefs isn't easy, but I would just discuss with them how much you value their friendship, respect their beliefs, although you may see things a bit differently.

My love for neighbor has increased since studying CS, and that's because God's Love fills what was lacking. By their fruit you will know them. :)

[adyer]

Hi Pookey,

I also had a tough time of it when I first became a Christian Scientist and my parents (non-religious) were convinced I'd been "sucked into a cult". Not quite the same as someone trying to "save" me from hellfire, but they were still doing it out of fear for my welfare. I found the best thing was to just avoid bringing religious topics up in conversation, and carry on loving them as usual and not getting too hung up on "why can't they see and respect that it means something to me?!" I don't think their opinion of Christian Science has changed, but we still have a good relationship and no-one makes nasty comments about That Weirdo Religion any more. If Mum and Dad only knew it, learning about everyone's true spiritual nature has actually made me appreciate them more!
Courtenay, I didn't quote it all but I like it all!

My experience (and I'm sure that of many others like us) is similar. I've been a student now for over 30 years. When I first got into it my parents were deeply disturbed. My mom in particular who eventually couldn't talk about it without crying and my dad insisted I not talk with her about it. Since I'd been baptized as a child they were not worried about me but are convinced my wife and son are going to hell.

But, again like you, we get along great and I appreciate them more. They can tell from my life what is true even if they have trouble with the theology.
***
Pookey,

If someone told you that gravity does not always pull your feet to the ground, what would you say? You wouldn't argue about which gravity is true...yours or hers. You would know that gravity is universal to all on the planet and pulls her feet to the ground just as it does yours...regardless of what she says about it.

Can her mistake hurt her or you? Can it nullify gravity?

[shelly]

Hi I would also say that it is best to stay out of those conversatons and pray. You never know when you may have the opportunity to pray and they will see the results.

[Tim Turner]

I am new to this web-site and this method of blogs and responses, but there seem to be a lot of very thoughtful folks responding to this, so thought that I would weigh in on some insights that I have discovered.

When you are discussing religion with others, it is very important to define the terms. My idea of God and someone else (not brought up or familiar with CS) are probably entirely different. I think that a lot of "mainstream" religions that define God as someone "up there in Heaven," not the all-knowing, all-seeing God that is everywhere and as my SS teacher said: There is NOT a spot where God is not! Most non-CS folk tend to define GOD in more human (androformorphic) terms. Heaven and Hell are also what a lot of folks either look forward to or fear, BUT speaking from experience, these are not future places to visit, BUT the reality of hear and now. We experience periods of HELL in our lives when we feel seperated from God and consequently experience Heaven when we feel God's presence and all that we have to be grateful for in this wonderful creation.

The point is to find something that you have in common with you friend, roomate, etc. that you are discussing religion with. If you can agree that God is good, always good and we are made in his image, then you have a starting point. You can continue from there when you start to expand the idea of God as Love, then continue and expand to God as Truth. . . . . until you get ALL seven.

All the "words" get in the way sometime when attempting to explain your religion (CS) as it is maybe better just to "live it" and be an example to your fellow man.

Just some thoughts to get started. Hopefully, others will weigh-in on this!

[adyer]

Good reply, Tim.

[Cornelius]

I come from a "Pentecostal","Evangelical",and later "Orthodox""Catholic"background. I have searched all Denominations and Religions! When at first came into contact with a Church of Christ Scientist Church in the early 1970s and the Text Book of Christian Science It was indeed a marvelous and wonderful Revelation to me! It was indeed "sweet" as honey but later became "bitter" for I could not understand how can there be no Matter! Then I thought:If 1 and 1 equals 2,and 2 and 2 equals 4 and so on,then if Good Good created "all very good" and as Jesus said "God is Spirit.." it follows that God Spirit created all things spiritual,and "man in His Image and Likeness" spiritual! And if "God is Light in Him there is no darkness" as the Scriptures declare then "God is Spirit" in Him there is no Matter! The Truth,the Light dawned on me at last and I could see clearly the Truth of Christian Science! Mrs Mary Baker Eddy indeed she is the Discoverer and Founder of Christian Science,the Science of Christianity! Since that time I live in the Light of the All-Love God Good Spirit that made me and all Creation very good,spiritual,harmless,innocent,happy and healthy,always beautiful and youthful,reflecting energy and power,full of life! "You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free": Christ Jesus

[JudyRae]

Those of you who are signed in with TMCyouth will find a wonderful blog and discussion called "Great conversations with Christians" by Shirley Paulson. There are some really helpful ideas there.

JudyRae

[zoarean]

"You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free": Christ Jesus

In my time in Christian Science, I've heard this quote quite often. One day it peaked my interest to see it in context:

"Then said Jesus again unto them, 'I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.' Then said the Jews, 'Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.' And he said unto them, 'Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.' Then said they unto him, 'Who art thou?' And Jesus saith unto them, 'Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.' They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Then said Jesus unto them, 'When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.' As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, 'If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.' " John 8:21-32

Context is king in the world of God's revelation.

zoarean

[mhnlm]

Hi Pookey:
I think one important facet of what you wrote is your recognition of "feeling a twinge of pain when error speaks".

Every single issue, irrespective of the garb in which it presents itself, is the opportunity to for us to recognize: to what degree do I KNOW error is nothing?"

It isn't so much what mortal mind says that we address, but challenge "its" right to speak in the first place.

You recall the story of Jesus tempted in the wilderness -- as long as he kept giving "snappy answers" to the devil's challenges, ("IF thou be the Son of God") as if it were subject to question -- he continued to get more challenges. When he recognized it as nothing rather than "something," When he said, "Get thee behind me" -- it was over.
Your "challenge" at this point isn't "religion" so much as it is in a residual acceptance of the presumptive power of error, the belief in a separate mind.
Become more clear of what ONE Mind means, and the rest will fall into place -- or, as He said: "Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness, and all these things shall be added."

With ALL Blessings
Michael
):->

[Cornelius]

Zoarean you say "in your time in Christian Science";but you were never in Christian Science or you would never leave it! OH,"come taste the Goodness of the Lord" once you have tasted the Goodness of the Lord Christ Jesus and His Truth, the Christ Science you will never leave it! You have to take into account All the Bible not just what you quoted out of context of All the Bible! God Good bless you and reveal the Truth of His Divine Science to you!

[zoarean]

"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. And when the tempter came to him, he said, 'If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.' But he answered and said, 'It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.' Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, 'If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.' Jesus said unto him, 'It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;' And saith unto him, 'All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.' Then saith Jesus unto him, 'Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.' Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him." Matt. 4:1-11

[zoarean]

Cornelius,

Not sure how taking a single verse & simply revealing the eleven verses prior constitutes "(quoting) out of context". Seems that would be the very path to finding the context.

May God bless all of us on this board by speaking truth to us.

zoarean

[shelly]

Well, I have had the most wonderful opportunity to share Christian Science with a Penacostal family here in Boston! This family was staying at the same hotel as us and I have had the opportunity to have gentle conversations with them going and coming on the shuttle between the hotel in Newton and Boston. They are very devoted people and that is something to appreciate in anyone.

It has been helpful to focus on healing. They believe in healing and so do we. Another interesting conversation has been about music in the church and moving from traditional music to contemporary music.

They also had similar struggles introducing contemportay music into their services.

Anyway, the conversations have been gentle and they are going to visit the Mapparium and the church center. They also mentioned that the driver of a tour they went on today communicated that Christian Science was not Scientology, but instead very Bible based.

[Norbu]

At a recent meeting I had the privilige of attending, a leading activist for social change in India was admonished by the Dalai Lama for what has been the movements use of Buddhism for political ends. The renewal of Buddhism in India is a passionate cause for the Dalai Lama for many reasons including the fact that if people can learn to respond with unconditional compassion and understanding in all their dealings inter communal harmony will be more easily established.

The Dalai lama said something like this: "Do not be a Bhuddhist for the wrong reasons; do not become a Buddhist to fight against injustice caused by another cast; you must become a Buddhist to learn to bring unconditional compassion to all your dealings with others and then you can change society."

I know that Mrs Eddy used the term VS in a number of contexts but I would doubt if it is helpful to use without very careful thought in any [other] contexts. Because when you use the term VS you are identifying an imaginary enemy and potentially personalising the difference. This is the path of tribalism and nationalism and all the wars in history. Religion may not be such an important force behind wars as it once was but still it will do no-one any good if it is relegated to the status of a competition!

Norbu

[adyer]

Sorry I lost the plot here. What is VS?

[David]

I think the VS referred to is the vs in the thread title. While there are differences between Christian Science and other faith traditions, the word versus brings up shades of right vs. wrong, us vs. them, etc. I don't think that was the intent of the person who started the thread, but probably all of us could use a little less vs in our thoughts about and dealings with other people.

I've been thinking a lot recently about the Bible verse "Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord" (Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29). No vs in that--just one God, All-in-all. A tough standard to maintain, but it's sure worth trying.

[adyer]

Thanks for the clarification, David.

I agree that versus should be used with care. But I hope we use it. In other words, not using it because it might upset someone -- even though it is correct -- is not the direction I want to go.

"Christian Science versus Spiritualism" is a chapter in Science and Health. Or consider the following:

"Understanding versus belief"
"Science versus hypnotism"
"matter versus Mind"

Spiritualists might be offended but it is spiritualism that is antagonistic to CS...if not per se at least in concept.

Probably Pentecostalism vs Christian Science is not apt. And we should never make it people vs people.

On a related note, there is a movement afoot to remove the versus from evolution versus creationism. Many orthodox Christians now subscribe to the notion that the two coexist. I don't know why this is...maybe it is a sort of "nicene-ish" compromise to keep the skeptical adherents from abandoning orthodoxy or to keep orthodox religion from being further marginalized by a scientific orthodoxy that is hostile to it.

The old saying goes: "Before you tear down a fence, make sure you know why it was put up." I don't intend to remove the versus just because someone doesn't like it. But I think we need to be honest about whether its use is metaphysically correct.

[neptune]

Those that have read Cormac McCarthey's "The Road" might remember
one of the last things the father says to his son,
"Good will find you"
Perhaps Good finds us in most religious ideals with the right inentions

I am new. thank you for the breath of fresh air
this site brings.

[JudyRae]

Hi Neptune,

I just wanted to welcome you to these discussion forums! :) I hope we'll hear a lot more from you!

JudyRae