Never record ages

[Laurie]

In S&H we read "Never record ages." Attributes such as energy and vitality are not
limited to young people. Wisdom and maturity are not limited to older people. I
agree with the idea of never recording ages. Obviously there are legal requirements
such as birth certificates, going to school, getting a driver's license, etc, which have
secular age requirements and CS'ers will compile with those laws.

But what I wonder about is why Mrs Eddy put a 20-year old restriction on Sunday
School. For people who are only introduced to Christian Science later in life,
they will never get the opportunity of informal discussions about how Christian
Science can be used in everyday life. For new people, Wednesday night can
be a bit intimidating to pose questions (when most be are talking about healings
they have).

So I guess I wonder why Mrs Eddy said "never record ages" and then put an
age restriction on when people must not attend Sunday School anymore.

[Martin]

Laurie, you have a great question and one I have thought about. In Moses's day, the standard age set for milatary service was 20 years. Christian Scientists may be called upon to battle spiritually in the way that Paul describes in II Cor. 10:4. My Sunday School experience certainly prepared me to battle spiritually. Later in life I participated in Class and Instruction which provided a wonderful opportunity to discuss Christian Science, which for me was after age 20. Perhaps this new website ChristianScience.Com provides a new forum to engage in discussions about Christian Science.

[Susieee]

Laurie,

Thanks for asking such a great question. Spiritually speaking, you are right, we do possess all intelligence, insight, grace, joy, vitality, freshness. We all have the ability to demonstrate how (S&H p.236) "youth makes easy and rapid strides towards Truth." I also love this reminder to all of us (Misc. p.110): "Beloved children, the world has need of you, — and more as children than as men and women: it needs your innocence, unselfishness, faithful affection, uncontaminnated lives... What grander ambition is there than to maintain in yourselves what Jesus loved, and to know that your example, more than words, makes morals for mankind!"

Yet, at the same time, while maintaining that high spiritual perspective, I dearly love how Christian Science insightfully meets the human need.

The idea of a "children's program" was pretty rare in Mrs. Eddy's day, though today people are recognizing the value of it. Very often, the way adults operate and learn doesn't serve children. If adults were the focus, and were allowed to predominate in Sunday School, it would most likely not be as valuable to children. Yet, children are the NOW of the world along with the rest of us - not just the future. We need them, their example and their prayers, right now, as the quote above says. I'm so grateful that Mrs. Eddy provided a place to nurture and honor them and their healing ability.

As an adult, if someone is recognizing their need to learn more about Christian Science, they can ask any number of people - fellow church members, readers, practitioners, teachers of Christian Science, this website, etc. I would also add that while Sunday School attendance is limited by age, the content is open to us all. There is nothing like the power of the lessons taught there.

So, with that, I invite everyone to explore a Christian Science site dedicated to nurturing youth: www.tmcyouth.com. It has a section dedicated to Sunday School superintendents, teachers and students, plus anyone of any age who feels they might be helped by the resources there: http://www.tmcyouth.com/sunday-school.html

Enjoy!

[Laurie]

Yes but many churches (non-CS churches that is) offer Sunday School for adults where there are adult classes where adults can discuss similar topics. I'm not talking about mixing the adults and children but offering adult SS classes.

[NYCtown]

Adults can still attend Sunday School in the Christian Science church...as teachers! I know that when I was teaching I learned as much--or more--as the kids did. ;)

[Kate]

Hi, I really think people of any age should get the oppertunity too discuss things and share ideas.. perhaps this is something you could do together after church once in a while.

Someone said to me that you need to start practicing it sometime, I guess it would be like going to school all your life, then nobody would teach!

There may be a biblical reason for the age i have heard.. also it is quite practical.

[Susieee]

PS - there is now a conversation going on www.tmcyouth.com about this topic.

Here are the general discussion threads about Sunday School:
http://www.tmcyouth.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

And here's the specific conversation on this topic (you'll need to be a member of the site to reply):
http://www.tmcyouth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1435

Laurie, if you wanted to organize an informal group of friends to study the Bible and Science and Health together, perhaps that could accomplish what you're looking for. It's not necessarily the answer for everyone, but if it feels like an answer to prayer - go for it!

Cheers, Susie

[pattyp]

As Susie suggests, there are any number of ways a branch church can satisfy the desire of the over-20 set for classes, Bible study groups, discussion groups, Read-Science-and-Health-through-in-a-Year (or Miscellaneous Writings) groups, or whatever. While CS churches must fulfill certain obligations (SS, RR, lectures, testimony meetings), their activities are not limited to those provisions. They are free to offer members and their friends any opportunity for discussions that they feel will meet the need of their members. One branch I know of holds informal discussion groups (Bible Lesson) on Wednesdays before their testimony meetings. Attendance isn't obligatory, but is open to anyone who wishes to attend. Another branch has a group of members who meet one Sunday evening a month for Bible study, and some members bring friends. Some Reading Rooms offer opportunities to get together -- to discuss current events (CS Monitor), or hear programs on Spirituality.com followed by discussion, etc. No-one should accept the belief that they're deprived of something valuable just because they're "too old" for Sunday School. Put your prayers to work and get a move on!

[NancyJ]

If an adult wanted to learn with a CS teacher (the inquiry being either from a nonmember or member) does that person just call and ask for the appt. and opportunity? I realize there is a fee. Will a teacher offer services to a nonmember if they see genuine interest?
Thanks!
Nancy

[pattyp]

It all depends on the CS teacher's perspective. Some readily include in their classes pastors of other denominations, medical professionals, and what have you, as well as CS church members, -- the basic requirement being a sincere desire on the part of each student to grow in their understanding of Christian Science.

Other teachers prefer to limit their classes to those with more experience, often including substantial activity as a member of a CS church.

There is no set rule. Each teacher is free to choose students according to the dictates of their conscience.

So don't be discouraged if your first inquiries don't seem promising. You will learn something helpful from each contact. Yes, you can phone or write or email or visit or whatever you're led to do. Just don't be shy!

Prayer and "window shopping" helped me link up with the CS teacher who was best for me. Since the relationship with a teacher is ongoing over the years, it's important to choose one whom you will not hesitate to confide in or seek help from as you progress in your practice of Christian Science.

I checked out four CS teachers before I found the right answer. The first ones were men who were prominent in the field of CS, lecturers, etc. I was drawn to them because I wanted to be sure my husband (who was not a CS at the time) would relate to them. When I applied to the first one, it fell through. (I was pregnant at the time.) After visiting another one in his office, I came away with a distinct answer that this was not God's answer for my need either. Another teacher wrote frequently for the CS magazines and I talked with him by phone, but that was also a "no go."

Still, I urgently felt the need for class instruction. As I continued to pray, it became clear that instead of finding a teacher who would please my husband (who could have cared less) I just needed to get on with selecting one who was right for me. Once I was willing to work in that direction, it became very clear that I should be taught by a woman.

So I sent off a letter to three different teachers in my area, simply asking the dates when they would be holding class that year. Each one replied graciously and promptly, but even though the responses were all quite similar, one of them stood out to me as IT.

I made an appointment to meet her and took my husband along for the visit. We were both delighted, and I was accepted for that year's class. The following year, my mother-in-law was in that teacher's class (she had been a "straggler" CS for many years). Then, (glory be!) the following year my husband was in her class, and he later entered the full-time practice of CS.

Obviously, each one's class experience is unique, just as your's is bound to be. So, don't count on others to make the decision for you. Just lean on God with all your heart, and it will turn out right.

Several years after my class experience, I met the well-known teacher to whom I had first applied for class. He didn't recognize me as the farm woman whom he had turned down at the time, even though my husband and I had had several visits with him. He was absolutely certain that I had never applied to him for class instruction, and kept saying so.

When I mentioned this to my CS teacher, she laughed and said, "He just didn't recognize a student when he saw one."
But we both knew that his decision not to teach me had been God-directed. It just wasn't the answer for that teacher's class or mine!

[goodwinh]

Our branch church has a group that meets informally ever other week to discuss the current and forthcoming Bible lessons. A number of new comers have enjoyed attending these sessions, asking questions and discussing the Bible Lesson with others. That's kind of like Sunday School for Adults.

[danr415]

That's a very interesting question! As a Sunday School student myself (almost graduating), I do see the vast amount that a Sunday School class can offer to its students and teachers, and might recommend it for adults, but I also want to add something else:

As you know, adults are able to go to the Church Service when they reach the age of 20, and I think that this Church Service is quite similar to Sunday School -- instead of the teacher, you have the Bible, Science and Health, the Hymnal and the words of the Soloist. And even moreso, instead of discourse between students, you have silent prayer with God. This conversation with God is also often encouraged throughout this Service since every word spoken from the desk and soloist is designed to bring us closer to God in our understanding of God. Isn't that the same/similar goal as the goal of the Sunday School?

With regard to age, you are correct -- it's a material benchmark that Christian Scientists do not believe in, similar to all other material things. Yet, there is a difference between believing in material and acknowledging material. If we do not acknowledge material, then we are simply living in a bubble and become ignorant of what seems to be going on around us. If, on the other hand, we start believing in the material situation, then we render ourselves unable to express God. Therefore, Mrs. Eddy devotes most of Science and Health and her other writings to first acknowledge the material situation, then heal each situation spiritually, telling us how to perform these healings each step of the way. Same here -- she is acknowledging that the age of 20 is appropriate for students to leave Sunday School while giving us the tools think correctly about those perfect ideas of God -- which were absolutely perfect prior to birth, during life at all ages, and following the material concept of death.

[newunfoldment]

In Science we witness and celebrate SOUL-years , not solar-years.
We express gratitude for the creativity, usefulness, wisdom, joy, resiliency, agility, fulfillment and purposefulness that we experience, express, and reflect.

[NancyJ]

Thank you Patty, what a great lesson in your experience, too!

[Laurie]

Although I agree with just about everything we have discussed in this thread,
my original question is still unanswered. How can we actually follow MBE's
two instructions "Never record ages" and the instruction that people must
leave Sunday School at the age of 20. It would be impossible to follow
both instructions.:confused: because if you don't record ages, you wouldn't
know when a person becomes 20 years old.

THAT IS MY QUESTION.

[pattyp]

In response to Laurie's last question, SS classes can be arranged without any need for recording ages.

Step #1. If your SS hasn't already done so, stop using the SS registration cards that were provided by TMC in the 1940s and 1950s which do, indeed, ask the age of the pupil (and maybe even the date of birth?).

Step #2. Start advertising and announcing SS as being "for children and teenagers" instead of the traditional wording "for children up to the age of 20." When someone is no longer a teenager, they know it and can be trusted to move on -- often with some sort of acknowledgement from the Sunday School -- a "graduation" ceremony perhaps? No need for the SS to police this issue.

Step #3. If, indeed, your SS still has some sort of registration process for pupils, simply classify them according to the educational group they currently belong to in public or private school -- i.e., preschool, elementary, intermediate, junior high, high school or college. That should be sufficient to ensure that students are placed in classes best tuned to them.

Grouping children merely by age alone would be a mistake, since their competency and interests can vary widely. For example, when one of my children was attending a Jr High class in SS, she felt the teaching was more geared to younger kids. Together, we asked the SS superintendent if she could sit in on the High School class instead. Bless the superintendent's heart, she accepted the arrangement without batting an eye.

Two or three months later, my daughter said she thought she should be in the college class instead. You guessed it! I thought she was nuts, and told her she'd have to arrange that with the SS superintendent all on her own. I was too embarassed to ask.

Surprise, the superintendent again graciously agreed and moved her on to a class of 3 or 4 college students. There she remained.

True, this girl was mature for her "age" and looked it. But how many SSs are that flexible in meeting the needs of their students?

Btw/ in our family, we don't celebrate birthdays either, partly because of the "never record ages" rule. There are plenty of opportunities to celebrate a child's progress without glorifying the birth to death cycle of mortal belief.

[Laurie]

Patty,

Those are such great ideas!!! I'm going to make sure our SS teachers get a copy of your posting.

We also don't celebrate birthdays in our family. I remember one embarassing situation when I had invited some people over for a barbeque and they were chatting about my young baby and asked when her birthday was. I had to scratch my head and said "Oh, gee, it's actually today!" They must have thought I was a negligent mother - LOL ;)