Existentialism video..

[ummok]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8kgzWAN2U0I&mode=related&search=

found it interesting, as i'm dealing with this sort of existential crisis... what i found interesting was the term "bad faith".. how does the Christian science community respond to this?

[mcelroy]

Hi Ummok,

I studied philosophy in college and did my senior thesis on Existentialism. My feeling is that existentialism, although it gives little or no answers regarding the questions “What is life?”, “What is my purpose?”, “What is real?”, it does point out, very aptly, that all attempts to answer these questions based on a material, mortal view of things is impossible. I think the “bad faith” talked about in the video refers to the act of trying to define oneself by human/mortal measurements/criteria, i.e. physical body, age, human history, culture, race, money, politics, etc. Again, existentialism doesn’t point to much in the way of what is real, but here it is very pointedly revealing the unreality and unsubstantiality of all the limiting ways that we are often tempted to define ourselves and our circumstances.

Here is where Christian Science rescues those in seeming existential crises. It’s true that it’s necessary to recognize the nothingness of the illusory matterial stuff that we are so often tempted to lean upon or seek for goodness in. But we don’t stop there! What’s even more important than recognizing the falsity of illusion, is seeing the reality of what is spiritual! We can never be stuck in an existential crises, having lost our fake material crutches, when we see where our real support comes from, where real love comes from, where real purpose, meaning, direction, and grace come from. ALL good comes from God alone. Most existentialists say there is no god because they’re considering a material, anthropomorphic sense of god. Frankly, I could never believe in such a god either!! But the God that is always with you, always supplying everything that you need, and ever rescuing you from the illusion of limitation, is real, and always loves you!!!

Being less concerned with the false support systems and labels of the world, and more focused on, and grateful for the facts about God and your relationship to Him/Her helps to provide a firm foundation for progress.

with Love!
Tom

[kidlit]

Ummok,

I'm no philosopher, but the word that kept coming to mind during this video was "I." And I know that, in my own practice of Christian Science, I feel the most stuck if the "I" that's first in foremost in my thought is about me instead of about God. For example, when you say, "I messed up," what does that say about God? Could God mess up? Never. Could God make mistakes or be sick or in any way be in crisis? No. So, then, how could you, His reflection, His very manifestation?

No matter what mistakes or choices you've made, it doesn't change the way God sees you or how much He loves you. And in spite of what the material senses are constantly screaming, there aren't two experiences. There aren't two realities--one material and one spiritual. There is only the spiritual and only the good.

I think the answers you're seeking will come as you put your focus on the real "I" and get to know more about this benevolent, all-loving, totally wise Father-Mother of yours.

I know, I know. The darkness--the questions like "Why is this happening to me?" or "Why am I suffering?" or "Why is my life so messed up?"--can seem very legitimate. But I speak from experience when I say: That is a dead-end road. Don't go down it. Spend a little time just feeling God's love for you--it's there, and it's the most natural thing in the world for you to feel. And it's the light that breaks through and obliterates the darkness.

[Norbu]

Hi Ummok,

I studied philosophy in college and did my senior thesis on Existentialism. My feeling is that existentialism, although it gives little or no answers regarding the questions “What is life?”, “What is my purpose?”, “What is real?”, it does point out, very aptly, that all attempts to answer these questions based on a material, mortal view of things is impossible. I think the “bad faith” talked about in the video refers to the act of trying to define oneself by human/mortal measurements/criteria, i.e. physical body, age, human history, culture, race, money, politics, etc. Again, existentialism doesn’t point to much in the way of what is real, but here it is very pointedly revealing the unreality and unsubstantiality of all the limiting ways that we are often tempted to define ourselves and our circumstances.

I think you have put that very well.

Here is where Christian Science rescues those in seeming existential crises. It’s true that it’s necessary to recognize the nothingness of the illusory matterial stuff that we are so often tempted to lean upon or seek for goodness in. But we don’t stop there! What’s even more important than recognizing the falsity of illusion, is seeing the reality of what is spiritual! We can never be stuck in an existential crises, having lost our fake material crutches, when we see where our real support comes from, where real love comes from, where real purpose, meaning, direction, and grace come from. ALL good comes from God alone. Most existentialists say there is no god because they’re considering a material, anthropomorphic sense of god. Frankly, I could never believe in such a god either!! But the God that is always with you, always supplying everything that you need, and ever rescuing you from the illusion of limitation, is real, and always loves you!!!

Being less concerned with the false support systems and labels of the world, and more focused on, and grateful for the facts about God and your relationship to Him/Her helps to provide a firm foundation for progress.


The problem is not understanding the words but is being able to experience what they mean and for me and many this is why they leave CS. This is not because this there is no truth in them but because there is not a clear enough path explained with these words.

Finding a path through all this can take a long time as it did with me. Part of this is because I saw too much of "bad faith" in the God I saw described by others including elements of the words used by Mrs Eddy. I also found that the repeated statements of other students of CS including practitioners to be hollow. I was one of those who needed greater philosophical consistency than presented by what to me is an admix of relative and absolute without sufficient philosophical rigour in CS.

Now I am not challenging the truth to be found in "Divine Science" I am just saying that I found the language had its limits that this language could not help me through the existential crisis I found myself in and I found no-one in the movement who could elucidate this path for me.

Norbu;)

[levity]

I find it interesting that bad faith is so closely linked to the concept of self-deception. Especially because that's one of the arguments that always comes to mind when I'm not getting the answers I want, or a healing is delayed. Without fail, I hear a voice that says, "Maybe you're just kidding yourself. Who are you to believe that matter isn't real and Spirit is All? Who are you to think that God could possibly come to your aid?"

I think that's why the practice of Christian Science has become so important to me. Because then it's not just about the words, or about blind faith in something I don't really understand, or the hope that I haven't been deluding myself for the last several decades. The more I put what "the words" say into practice--the more I actually try to live what I'm learning from the Bible and Science and Health--the more I feel like I can trust God (and, by extension, Christian Science) because I actually understand Him (and it).

A lot of the time I do this in baby steps--maybe it's just being consistent in turning away from ugly personality traits in others and focusing on what it means to say that we're all children of God--but I can say that each step I take, be it big or small, does bring me closer to a more tangible experience of God's presence and power, to a heartfelt, rather than just intellectual, understanding of what "the words" set out for us. And then I'm not just telling myself that I'm not deluded in believing this stuff. I'm actually convinced of the truth of it because I feel it deep down.

[levity]

Finding a path through all this can take a long time as it did with me. Part of this is because I saw too much of "bad faith" in the God I saw described by others including elements of the words used by Mrs Eddy. I also found that the repeated statements of other students of CS including practitioners to be hollow. I was one of those who needed greater philosophical consistency than presented by what to me is an admix of relative and absolute without sufficient philosophical rigour in CS.


One other thing I wanted to add ... specifically in response to this ... This is only my experience, of course, but to me, the only time when I find a lack of "philosophical consistency" in Christian Science is when I mistakenly go about trying to reconcile matter and Spirit. When I reason from the basis of what Mary Baker Eddy called the two "cardinal points" of Christian Science--the Allness of God, Spirit, and the nothingness of matter--everything makes sense. Additionally, then my spiritual reasoning/prayers don't feel like a mental or intellectual exercise, but sort of ... a revelation.