Where I get stuck

[Starlight Rider]

Christian Science has given me lifelong benefits in many areas of my life. By applying its teachings I have found solutions to many problems, big and small in my life covering schooling, relationships, employment and financial matters, finding an affordable home in an expensive community, improved self-confidence, and sometimes just finding myself in just the right place at just the right time to be of service to others, or to find just what I needed at the moment. Some of these things came about after some struggling and with the help of a practitioner, but mostly I have just prayed on my own and the effort was minimal on my part. These sorts of things happen to me routinely, and I silently express my gratitude to God whenever they occur. They continue to bless my experience despite what I describe below.

These are what I would call situational issues. Where I get stuck is with physical healing. Even after more than four decades of study and applying my understanding as best I can I just can't seem to get a handle on it.

I've had a minor but chronic issue for a quarter century. I worked with three practitioners over two years and got to where I could get on with my life again, but since then whenever I tried to pray about it for a complete healing I would develop a cold - like clockwork. This happened so many times that I decided to stop praying about it and live with the condition, and only then did it actually improve and now it is just an occasional annoyance.

More recently I've been dealing with a very uncomfortable muscle problem. It has been going on for a couple years now. I worked with a practitioner for four months before seeing a doctor. A total of three doctors and a bunch of tests could find nothing physically wrong, and they attributed it to stress - not the first time I have received such a diagnosis. Counseling was suggested, and I've been doing that. I've learned some interesting things about myself and how as a child I would use illness as a way to escape from bullying at school. I'm coming to realize this is ultimately a spiritual problem, and must be worked out that way.

But praying just doesn't seem to help. My experience calling CS practitioners for healing has been disappointing, and I really don't want to deal with them anymore because they just keep telling me the same things over and over without making me feel any better. Jesus didn't work that way. Mary Baker Eddy didn't work that way, either.

I've been around CS long enough to know all of the pat answers, and I've heard all of the "stay with it" encouragement I could stand. I don't want any more of that. I need healing!

At this point I'm confused, and not very happy. Downright angry at times, in fact. I thoroughly understand that matter is not substantial in itself, but is merely a product of thought. (The counselor I'm seeing agrees with that, by the way.) Thus I don't really have faith in medical solutions, but I have no faith that prayer can heal me, either. I can't tell you how lost that makes me feel. After years and years of trying to apply CS to my health, there just haven't been any successes in my experience to relate to.

Where do I go from here?

[ummok]

I know how you feel.. i'm so angry the anger is really taking its toll on me.

[awareimhere]

Just a little suggestion. Like you said, sometimes we use illness or bad habits as an excuse or a device for getting attention or compassion. Many people don't want to get healed simply because they would have to give up their handicap parking permit.

If you really want to get to the cause of your situation, ask yourself, "If I were healed of ___, then I would have to ___." Note what is the first thing to come to mind and also what feels correct.

Sometimes we feel that we have been 'cursed'. That someone has intentionally or unintentionally predicted ill for us. Because they are often someone we trust and love, we tend to believe them. Nevertheless, it is not true about you and never has been. Never.

One little thing you can do to disconnect from an erroneous belief is to act out the unplugging of it, just like pulling a plug out of the wall, grab the lie and jerk.

Mary

[Do Go Be Man]

Jim,
Where do I go from here?
A well-used definition describes insanity as repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting different results. Sounds like you need to dig deeper into your Books in a different way, do something different, or somehow gain a different perspective regarding what you are doing.

I found myself in a similar stuck position and discovered more focus in my studies on the Bible was tremendously beneficial. The most important thing I learned during Christian Science class instruction was that we could read beyond the texts of the Lesson-Sermon to better understand the full context of what the Bible teaches. As I studied the Bible in the full, broad, and detailed contexts of content, grammar, language, history, and culture, I found the healing I needed.

[Starlight Rider]

Just a little suggestion. Like you said, sometimes we use illness or bad habits as an excuse or a device for getting attention or compassion. Many people don't want to get healed simply because they would have to give up their handicap parking permit.

If you really want to get to the cause of your situation, ask yourself, "If I were healed of ___, then I would have to ___." Note what is the first thing to come to mind and also what feels correct.


Mary, interesting that you should bring out that question, because I have actually considered it already. If I were healed of some things I'd lose an excuse to avoid some things I don't like to do. On the other hand, I would also be able to live life more fully.

I really do feel stuck between two opposites, each trying to draw me in different directions. I get marvelous spiritual insights from time to time, which lead me higher into the light, and I think they're finally going to lead me into healing. But at the same time my feet still feel like they're stuck in the mud and I realize I'm going nowhere. The muscular tension I'm experiencing feels like a literal representation of this tug o' war going on in my thought.

Even more interesting, part of me feels stuck in this tug o' war, while another part of me is looking at this objectively and just finding it all very amusing. Sometimes this coincides with a brief realization that I can stop this muscle tension as soon as I decide I don't need to do it any more.

Part of my problem, though, is wondering where God fits into all of this. If God is everything Christian Science says He is, none of this should be happening. I think what I really need is to know that God is taking care of me, and I just don't see that.

[Starlight Rider]

Jim,

A well-used definition describes insanity as repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting different results.

LOL, I already thought of that. It's why I stopped calling the practitioner after four months. I've also stopped doing "affirmation and denial" prayers for the same reason.

I have been trying to bring my prayers out of the mental framework and into a larger, more spiritual approach, but I'm not really sure how to go about it. Mary's post #29 under the Meditation thread (http://www.christianscience.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93&page=3) seemed to suggest a direction for me, though.

[newunfoldment]

Hi Joy-In-Motion JIM,
Thanks for your post.
Discouragement is the opposite of gratitude, as your focus is aligned to gratefulness, and your unfragmented wholeness [health], you will witness a renewed sense of joy....just try it, and be blessed.

[light]

Hi Jim
Statements like "I know all the pat answers", "I thoroughly understand that matter is not substantial" shows that one is stuck on the letter or intellectual arguments of CS. Being focus on the letter of CS one is then led to have faith in one mental arguments and not proceeds to the next step as is stated in these statements in Science and Health.
By the truthful arguments you employ, and especially by the spirit of Truth and Love which you entertain, you will heal the sick. (pg 418:22)
Remember that the letter and mental argument are only human auxiliaries to aid in bringing thought into accord with the spirit of Truth and Love, which heals the sick and the sinner. (pg 454:32)
To entertain the spirit or bringing thought into accord with the spirit of Turth and Love is what is meant by utilising our spiritual senses for one of the description of spiritual sense is "Spiritual sense, contradicting the material senses, involves intuition, hope, faith, understanding, fruition, reality." (pg 298:13) The intution here spoken of are angel (ANGELS. God's thoughts passing to man; spiritual intuitions, pure and perfect; the inspiration of goodness, purity, and immortality, counteracting all evil, sensuality, and mortality.) (pg 581:4)
Also we must remember that "Science is an emanation of divine Mind, and is alone able to interpret God aright. It has a spiritual, and not a material origin. It is a divine utterance,--the Comforter which leadeth into all truth. (pg 127: 26-29)

[Sue]

Hi Jim,

I was thinking along the same lines as you just the other day when I was praying in regard to a condition that seemed to be recurring. Then the thought came. If I really understanding that 2+2 = 4 then I don’t fear situation where I may have to apply that principle. When a situation presents itself then I apply the principle automatically, it is not an effort. I don’t have to labour over it and I don’t have to make 2+2 = 4. It just is and I can apply that principle in any number of different situations.

Another thing that helped me to dismiss any sense of guilt when a healing does not seem to be progressing is that any suggestion, within my thought, that God is not omnipotent and imparting only good to his creation was not my thought. I am not guilty of wrong thinking, because they are not my thoughts but only mistaken suggestions about God, not me.

No matter what the human picture may be suggesting don’t be alarmed or discouraged. You have already proved that God is omnipotent Love in so many other areas of your life. What wonderful proofs of his/her care you have to celebrate.

[Do Go Be Man]

Jim,
I have been trying to bring my prayers out of the mental framework and into a larger, more spiritual approach, but I'm not really sure how to go about it.
What worked for me was getting back to basics, back to the foundations of Christian Science - the Bible, one of the Pastors of the Mother Church ordained by Mary Baker Eddy that she referred to as "the chart of life" and her only "textbook". "authority", and "guide".

Mrs. Eddy also said, "The Bible contains the recipe for all healing." The Bible is a wonderful work that God provided us. I found, however, that I got so focused on the writings of the last hundred years or so that I lost my sense of what God provided over thousands of years.

Commentaries and other teachings can be useful guides, but there's nothing like looking at the whole picture the Bible represents. The first tenet of Christian Science states, "... we take the inspired Word of the Bible as our sufficient guide to eternal Life." I have indeed found the Bible to be sufficient, rich, and a blessing in my life.

[awareimhere]

I really do feel stuck between two opposites, each trying to draw me in different directions. I get marvelous spiritual insights from time to time, which lead me higher into the light, and I think they're finally going to lead me into healing. But at the same time my feet still feel like they're stuck in the mud and I realize I'm going nowhere. The muscular tension I'm experiencing feels like a literal representation of this tug o' war going on in my thought.

Hi Jim,
There are two ways to end a tug-o-war. 1) Let go of the rope, or 2) Get someone big on your side. Do you recall Jesus saying that whatever you ask in his name he will give it to you. Why don't you ask him to grab a hold on your side and heave! And who is on the other side? Who or what are you resisting? What is "the opposite" of God?

And if your feet are stuck in the mud, wiggle your toes! Error hates to be laughed at because you're not taking it seriously then, and might catch on that it is only able to make suggestions which it's your choice to believe or not.

Now having just said that, I noticed my tight neck and realize I have answered my own prayer (or you did-thank you).

Did you read the Sentinel on Hope? One article talked about bamboo seeds that take 5 years to sprout and less than a month to grow to great heights. Not every process of healing is visible. If you are getting great insights, then you are 'in healing mode' and already receiving your healing. Be your Self and let God do the Rest.

[Starlight Rider]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. I'm still absorbing them, so I don't have any response to any of them just now.

One thought that came to me in the last day so relates to how I view situational problems compared to health problems. I'm more willing to just leave situations up to God, because I don't feel personally responsible for them.

However, with illness, I feel personally responsible for creating the condition, and personally responsible for finding a way out of it. As S&H states "The procuring cause and foundation of all sickness is fear, ignorance, or sin." The ignorance part implies I have to learn something in order to be healed. The fear and sin parts imply a deliberate turning away from good, and therefore healing is dependent on my turning back. But it also implies that if it is possible to turn away from good, then good must not be all there is. I really get confused here.


BTW, in addition to the problems I've already described, I've been dealing with a minor illness all week, and I'm getting even more discouraged. When I reach out to God as suggested above, I just get a blank feeling, which only reinforces my feelings of personal responsibility to get out of this.

[MikeDavis]

However, with illness, I feel personally responsible for creating the condition, and personally responsible for finding a way out of it. As S&H states "The procuring cause and foundation of all sickness is fear, ignorance, or sin."

Jim,

I think that there are many cases in which it is not a good idea to think of illness as something that one has personally created as an individual. I think that illness is often due to what we might call universal false beliefs of mortal mind -- part of the mortal condition as a whole.

Feeling guilty or personally responsible for illness, if carried too far, can often lead to a denial of God's grace and His healing power, and put the accent on human beings "creating their own reality" (as New Age philosophies would have it), and then trying to "uncreate" a bad reality and create a better one.

Anyway, just a few thoughts to add to the discussion today. I realize that this does not address all your concerns, but wanted to share it.

[JudyRae]

And I just wanted to add: Don't try to fix the dream - wake the dreamer!

JudyRae

[Norbu]

Hi Jim,

I decided to post something on the meditation thread just to make some things clear about the differences and similarities of CS and Buddhism. I don't wish to attempt to challenge any approach that you or fellow students of CS adopt in your path to recognising the Christ in all you experience. I just noticed this thread and recognised some similar experiences and wished to offer help; having been brought up in CS and having experienced similar obstacles to growth and prayer that you are describing. From my point of view as a practising Buddhist, all the words we ever use are just that; words. (Mrs Eddy agrees that words are, in the final instance, inadequate.)

Some, like myself need to follow a path that submits to utter rational consistency of the words and language that are used to describe the truth of things. And some like myself, brought up in CS have found difficulty with Mrs Eddy's writings because they are looking for rational consistency and aren't able to let go of this. This actually cuts us off from the heart, spirit even and until we can let go of this need for a rational conceptual certainty. When we recognise what there is to be realised the thoughts that we used to aid our understanding are no longer of great importance. Their only importance then is in helping us to retrace our path and lead others along that path.

So being trapped in the meanings of words can become a serious obstacle to spiritual growth. Perhaps we are just not patient and trusting enough. Perhaps, like St Thomas we need a very tangible form or proof before we can just accept... If we stop and just wait, the fruit of our intentions and desires will slowly become part of our experience. Our desires and intentions, in the end come from the deepest part of our nature where there is no thought that makes "good or bad", there is no conceptual separation between what is matter or spirit. These distinctions are just the creation of our minds which seek to self justify our existence and we then grasp to control the objects of our perception.

If you can release the intention of your heart's highest aspirations from the traps of the words then things will fall into place.

For me, practising Buddhist meditation has enabled me to do this. I can't see why there is any reason why a student of CS cannot sit and wait attentively for the answer to come naturally, perhaps in a similar way. This may take time, it may not, but so long as the waiting is waiting for the result to come the waiting will continue. When the waiting becomes a joy in the present, then you will recognise that which you seek as being ever present.

Norbu

[JudyRae]

I can't see why there is any reason why a student of CS cannot sit and wait attentively for the answer to come naturally, perhaps in a similar way. This may take time, it may not, but so long as the waiting is waiting for the result to come the waiting will continue. When the waiting becomes a joy in the present, then you will recognise that which you seek as being ever present.
Norbu

Hi Jim,

Norbu's wise words above remind me of the wonderful testimony 'Born Again' in the Fruitage pages at the back of Science and Health. For those reading this who do not have the book, here is a link to the testimony on www.spirituality.com:
BORN AGAIN (http://www.spirituality.com/dt/book_lookup.jhtml?reference=SH%2B667&marks=false) (scroll down to line 20)

It really is worth reading the entire testimony, but here is the wonderful part that Norbu's post above reminded me of and which I hope will inspire and encourage you Jim:



For a long time I was always looking back to see if the error had gone, until one day when I realized that to catch a glimpse of what spiritual sense means I must put corporeal sense behind me. I then set to work in earnest to find the true way. I opened Science and Health and these words were before me, "If God were understood, instead of being merely believed, this understanding would establish health" (p. 203). I saw that I must get the right understanding of God! I closed the book and with head bowed in prayer I waited with longing intensity for some answer. How long I waited I do not know, but suddenly, like a wonderful burst of sunlight after a storm, came clearly this thought, "Be still, and know that I am God." I held my breath--deep into my hungering thought sank the infinite meaning of that "I." All self-conceit, egotism, selfishness, everything that constitutes the mortal "I," sank abashed out of sight. I trod, as it were, on holy ground. Words are inadequate to convey the fulness of that spiritual uplifting, but others who have had similar experiences will understand.
From that hour I have had an intelligent consciousness of the ever-presence of an infinite God who is only good. --C. B. G., Hudson, Mass.

(Science and Health pages 667/8

JudyRae

[Starlight Rider]

I must say I am grateful for all of the thoughtful posts thus far. It feels good to know you all wish to help me find my way. I feel the love! :cool:

Norbu, I saw your post under the meditation thread and found it very interesting, and refreshing. I read it last night, and again tonight.

In regards to your comments above, I do understand the importance of not getting hung up in words, but I also think it helps to try to understand the intent of the writer.

I'm not, however, seeking an intellectual understanding. I'm seeking awareness. I understand the difference between a thought about something, and actual awareness of it. Thoughts can lead to awareness, but by themselves they are not a substitute for it. As I mentioned before, in situational matters, I feel a genuine awareness of a power or intelligence beyond myself directing traffic, so to speak. But when it comes to my own health, I just don't have that same feeling of awareness.

I have tried quiet meditation, but I often have trouble with random thoughts cluttering things up. On those rare occasions when Ii can completely clear my thoughts, I just seem to draw a blank, no particular awareness of anything except my own existence. That really leaves me feeling lost. Either that or I just fall asleep.

[LoraHoward]

Jim,
I too, for years and years, had trouble with "physical " healings. I thought there was a difference between events and my body.
That was Mrs. Eddy's initial revelation--that sin and sickness were from the same source. That they were essentially one.
I think the thing is that, just as there is one God, good, there seems to be the suggestion of one bad--sin, sickness, disease, death, . This includes EVERY discord, whether it manifests as a cold or fight with a friend or bad weather. It doesn't matter. Discord is all the same.
I'll tell you what , though. This had to be a gradual revelation for me. It really doesn't matter to just be told yet another "true thing."
What worked for me was getting a really really good idea of what God was, and then the insight was something like,"O yeah, any discord or conflict is just the belief in an opposite to God." And I started to have physical healings.
So forgive me for telling you yet one more true thing. But I am convinced it can happen for you too.

--Lora

[pam]

Hi JIM,
You mention that you worked with 3 practitioners over 2 years and made a little progress on this....maybe you should keep looking around for a practitioner that can help you crack this?....CS practitioners are an example of ''getting someone big on your side'' to help with the ''tug of war'', (and ''put more weight of Truth on the right side of the scale'', like Mrs Eddy described many times)... there are 1000's of practitioners ( I am guessing, many hundreds at least, right?) and they all have different approaches... and in fact some of them do start off with the usual words of wisdom, and routine ideas... sometimes thats all we need to get off the ground, but it sounds to me like you need some help that is more fine tuned, and maybe from someone who is, how shall I say? a really powerful worker.....
Would it be possible for you to start calling around, and keep going until you get some help? Its a relationship thing, and we all know how that can require a lot of searching for the right person.....
As you search, by phone, I am assuming, I think you could very respectfully allude to your history, and your dedication to and love of Science, and be perfectly frank with a prospective practitioner about your frustrations, etc...from your interesting and thoughtful contributions on this forum site, you are clearly not a crank or hypocritical C.Scientist. Your posts here are always very useful and well based in what appears to me a good grasp of the spirit and practice of CS.
Call around. Call abroad.

Physical stuff does seem harder to me too, although I can often see how our thoughts affect our non physical problems too...however, when something hurts or looks wierd, it too easy to keep checking it, almost compulsively, and assuming failure each time...it makes us nervous.......if its a less physically referenced thing, relationship, financial, emotional etc problem, we can often go hours, even days thinking more positively, allowing Truth to work without "checking". Maybe the emotional/existential/financial/ad lib thing has been met! we tell ourselves happily, and so we relax, feel confident, and dont interfere with Truth so much... I dunno, its just a point of view some folks may have more than others, we are all different... we all have different things to cope with in our thinking...

How about when sometimes, we feel that our problems push us closer to God, and keep us working?... I often wonder about this: "The purpose of suffering" and its a knotty issue....St Paul refered to it, and I dont know if its particularly helpful as an idea....why should we need to suffer to make sure we work harder!?!? argh! However, it often seems an aspect of human experience.
It is more interesting and helpful to consider , as you have, that Jesus, MBE and all the other healers, historically, and within the history of CS, HEALED! They didnt faff about. They got the job done. Is there a resistence to healing in the patient? does that person need to "learn something"? Well, then, the healing process takes care of that too, and off you should go on your spiritual journey and take on the next challenge(s). Its very frustrating to deal with the same old problem year after year....

Which makes one wonder: Do we "hold onto" our ''familiar problems'', out of fear that a worse/harder thing will happen to us? Much nicer to stay in ''high school'', ''College'' sounds scary and hard? Of course, Who do we think we are kidding?
Well, it looks like I am asking more questions than the original poster...!

CS didnt take hold so strongly worldwide because of a lot of nice words and ideas, which it surely has...but because people got results, that they could see and feel. Every year the journal sentinel etc are full of 1000's of incredible healings, and I dont think people are making these up or exagerating. And of course the ones with affadavits are indisputable.

Good luck JIM, and find someone who can really help you get a hold of this and free you up for more great work!
love
pam

[jazzrascal]

I agree with Pam. It's great when you find a practitioner who really stands by you, but you also have to make the decision to stick with the work. I used to call a practitioner, work for a bit, and then give it up, until I realized that I had to be willing to stick with it for the long haul, if necessary. Some issues seem to take time (sometimes a long time) to work out, especially when we feel we're in the "wilderness." But this is exactly the time when a good, dedicated practitioner can give us the help we need. And don't let the financial part hold you back, either. I used to do that, too. Practitioners generally understand if we're having a struggle financially and are happy to be flexible about it.

jazzrascal

[Starlight Rider]

Pam & Jazz, the three practitioners over two years was 20 years ago. The third one helped me get back on my feet and functional again, but I never felt as if I was really cured. The problem still troubles me from time to time.

I worked with another practitioner a couple of times in the last two years with other issues. I really liked his approach for awhile, but in both cases things only got worse. I ended up seeing a doctor. Medical treatment helped in the first instance, but not in the second.

In response to this thread I was contacted off-forum by a practitioner who offered some very helpful suggestions. However, I'm not particularly interested in hunting around for the "right" one. Should I feel compelled to contact one in particular, I would probably follow the lead.

Thanks again everyone. Your support means a lot to me.

[Do Go Be Man]

Pam,

"... I often wonder about this: 'The purpose of suffering' and its a knotty issue ..."
Regarding the purpose of suffering, I think of Proverbs 30:7-9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%2030:7-9%20;&version=47;). The writer asks God for neither riches or poverty. Given riches, he fears he would forget his need of God. Given poverty, he fears he would curse God.

In my life, evil and suffering have served the purpose of making me less complacent regarding my relationship with God. I'm not one of those folks who can have everything go well and still remember that it is God who makes it so. If I had no challenges, I fear I would forget God. If over challenged, I fear I would curse God or otherwise deny Him.

[light]

If suffering is necessary for growth does it means that in heaven where there is no suffering all will stagnate and no infinite progression, no infinite being?

[jazzrascal]

Pam & Jazz, the three practitioners over two years was 20 years ago. The third one helped me get back on my feet and functional again, but I never felt as if I was really cured. The problem still troubles me from time to time.

Jim, I don't know it this will be helpful, but I've found that I have to stick with the practitioner and keep working until the full healing comes, no matter how long it takes.

jazzrascal

[Do Go Be Man]

light,

If suffering is necessary for growth does it means that in heaven where there is no suffering all will stagnate and no infinite progression, no infinite being?
Great question!

Hope I didn't imply, however, that suffering is strictly necessary for growth. My intent was to say that suffering is something that can, in our weakness and need for maturity, encourage us to seek God. Paul wrote,

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. Romans 5:1-5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%205:1-5;&version=47;) (English Standard Version, emphasis added)

In addition to much of the rest of the Bible, The Book of James (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%201;&version=47;) also addresses suffering beginning with:

Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

[MikeDavis]

Mrs. Eddy writes on page 57 of Unity of Good:

"Suffering was the confirmation of Paul's faith. Through 'a thorn in the flesh' he learned that spiritual grace was sufficient for him.

"Peter rejoiced that he was found worthy to suffer for Christ; because to suffer with him is to reign with him."

[Starlight Rider]

At times I have heard that suffering can be a way to keep one from becoming complacent with the pleasures of matter. On the other hand, suffering can also make one feel even more subject to matter's control. The danger of the latter makes dubious the benefits of the former.

I find it much easier to give God credit when things are well than when times are rough.

[JudyRae]

And I'd also like to add that Mary Baker Eddy also wrote: (my highlights)

Truth is won through Science or suffering: (Miscellaneous Writings p 362)

Remember that mankind must sooner or later, either by suffering or by Science, be convinced of the error that is to be overcome. (Science and Health p 240)

Progress is born of experience. It is the ripening of mortal man, through which the mortal is dropped for the immortal. Either here or hereafter, suffering or Science must destroy all illusions regarding life and mind, and regenerate material sense and self. The old man with his deeds must be put off. Nothing sensual or sinful is immortal. The death of a false material sense and of sin, not the death of organic matter, is what reveals man and Life, harmonious, real, and eternal. (Science and Health p 296)

Suffering or Science, or both, in the proportion that their instructions are assimilated, will point the way, shorten the process, and consummate the joys of acquiescence in the methods of divine Love. (Miscellaneous Writings p 213)

The way I read it, is that we have a choice! ;)

ORIGINAL: light

If suffering is necessary for growth does it means that in heaven where there is no suffering all will stagnate and no infinite progression, no infinite being?

Hi light, I have read books by and watched programmes about people who have had "near death experiences" (where they have died and been brought back, often in hospital) and many have said that they have had to face up to all the hurts they have caused others and to actually feel the pain that they caused.

Heaven is a state of absolute spiritual consciousness, that we can experience here and now as well as in the next stage of our experience. Hell is similar, but a state of mortal thought. Neither is a place that we go to after death. To my understanding, progress goes on as we drop the mortal, and suffering continues as a result of sin, if we have not overcome it here.

I have had an out-of-body experience, a tiny and awesome glimpse of heaven, following a healing, and without a body (I could see mine lying on the bed) I can't imagine that the belief of the suffering caused by disease could continue. However, if you were consumed with hatred, or hurt, I'm guessing that would continue until you had seen through it through understanding the Science of Being. Eddy confirms this to me, where she writes about the change called death. These pages are so relevant to this discussion. For those who do not have a Science and Health, I include a link to the first page:

S&H 290:1-292:12

HEAVEN IS NOT A LOCALITY (http://www.spirituality.com/dt/book_lookup.jhtml?reference=SH%20290&marks=false
)

Within those pages is are these words, which again, are so relevant to this discussion:

Mortals need not fancy that belief in the experience of death will awaken them to glorified being.
Universal salvation rests on progression and probation, and is unattainable without them. Heaven is not a locality, but a divine state of Mind in which all the manifestations of Mind are harmonious and immortal, because sin is not there and man is found having no righteousness of his own, but in possession of "the mind of the Lord," as the Scripture says. (Science and Health p 291)


JudyRae

[Do Go Be Man]

Jim,

God is with us in the low places as well as the high...

"A voice cries: 'In the wilderness prepare the way of the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill be made low; the uneven ground shall become level, and the rough places a plain. And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken.' Isaiah 40:3-5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%2040:3-5;&version=47;) (English Standard Version)