Was Jesus the Christ, God in Flesh?

[dee]

I am new to Christian Science and I had a question concerning what mainstream Christianity teaches. Was Jesus the Christ, God in flesh that suffered for mankind to be redeemed to himself? I always had concerns about that question and is it the same theology accepted in Christian Science?Could any of my brothers and sisters on this forum support their views from what the Bible teaches.

Thank you for your feedback!
Dee

[shelly]

As I've read Jesus words in the Bible, I've never found any evidence to indicate that Jesus saw himself as God.

In fact just this morning I was reading from John where Jesus is praying to God "Sanctify them throught thy truth; they word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the worl, even so have I also sent them inot the world. ... And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that htey may be one, even as we are one; I in them, and thou in me, that htey may be made perfect in one, and that th world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

Jesus if always very clear that he is not God. In fact he rebukes Peter when Peter calls him "good", saying "there is none good but the Father."

Through Christian Science, I have learned that the Christ is that pure consciousness of spiritual reality that comes to and will forever come to humanity to lighten the path to spiritual understanding. Jesus and the Christ were united that it was easy to mistake him for the Christ. But for me, the Chist is the message that opens our eyes. Jesus delivered that message to us.

I've found it is important to make the distinction because I then I am able to recognize my role in seeking the Christ. The work didn't end with the resurrection. It is for each of us to live and see for ourselves. Healing is evidence that the Christ consciousness is present. even now.

hope this helps

[Harry Stewart]

Dee,

Christian Science brings a very unique and healing perspective to this whole subject but it's not easy to condense it to a "sound bite." We do see Jesus as the highest human manifestation of the Christ, the Son of God, and look to him as our Wayshower. But, as Jesus himself told his disciples - he was not going to be around personally forever. However, he assured his followers for all time that the Christ - the Truth that he lived and taught - would be here forever. Christ, Truth, is what heals and helps us today just as it did in Jesus' time - it is "ever present in human consciousness" as Mary Baker Eddy writes in her major work, Science and Health. You'll enjoy reading some of the important points she makes about Jesus and Christ on pages 332 and 333 of her book. If you don't have a copy already, you can download one in the "Publications" section of this website.

Hope this helps!

[LoraHoward]

Christian Science, and the Bible do not teach that Jesus was God in the flesh. In the Gospels, Jesus refers to himself as the Son of God, not as God, and he frequently mentions and speaks with his Father, God.

Christian Science makes a distinction between Jesus and the Christ. Jesus was a human man and the Christ is the divine nature that is common to generic Man (men and women), and which Christ Jesus exemplified better than anyone.
Christian Scientists usually refer to Jesus as Christ Jesus, with Christ being used as a title of position , such as King David or President Lincoln.

To a Christian Scientist, the Christ is God manifest as Man, but it is not material or flesh, but divine. The Christ is common to all Man and when it is perceived, there is healing.
Christ Jesus showed us that this is the Truth about not just himself, but all of us, always.

This is a big, fundamental and interesting subject, which i certainly have not completely answered!

--Lora

[dee]

Thank you for your replies and what I have read so far has opened my mind to this question that has gripped me for a long time. I pray that the Father-Mother God will reveal this to me as I continue my Christian Science studies.

Warm Blessings,
Dee

[imjim]

Was Jesus the Christ, God in flesh that suffered for mankind to be redeemed to himself?

“Lady Liberty” - “the Statue of Liberty” - “Liberty Enlightening the World” (her original title) all names referring to the statue that stands in the port entering NY city. The name implies that she is equal to “liberty” - that she “is” liberty - and rightly so. Yet. . ., she is not liberty.

No person, place, or thing is capable of encapsulating the infinite essence of liberty. Yet, mankind is capable of understanding the concept through symbol or example. Hence the issuing forth of such material evidences as Lady Liberty.

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, . . .” John 1:14.

The word “made” is defined in the dictionary as “producing” - as in the making of a garment, “invented” - to tell stories of oneself, “prepared” - as from several ingredients: a made dish.

If we look at Jesus example of what Love, God is - how he “produced, invented, prepared, made” his human existence an example or symbol of Love - we get a clearer picture of what is meant by “the Word being made flesh”. He made the Word, God a real entity to human sense. He healed the sick, he walked on the water, he calmed the storm, he raised himself from the dead. He made Love a tangible force to human experience (he made the Word flesh).

Jesus, yearning to be understood, once cried out, “He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.” Despite all the marvelous works he performed / made the man Jesus never took personal credit, rather he pointed to something higher than himself - to a concept not capable of being encapsulated within a person, place or thing. To an infinite Principle, Love and invited us all to experience that redeeming Principle in our own lives.

Lady Liberty stands at the entry of NY welcoming all as a symbol of things greater than herself. Jesus too, stands at his port welcoming all to partake of what he recognized of things infinitely larger than himself - to the recognition of Love within, the kingdom of heaven.

Hope this helps,

Jim

[dee]

Blessings Jim!

Well put and that is making clearer sense. The Infinite Mind is making this issue clear to me as go on in my studies and what I have read so far in this discussion group!

Warm Blessings,
Dee

[Starlight Rider]

I believe the theological view that Jesus was God in the flesh is based on his statement "I and my father are one." Of course, elsewhere he makes statements that his father is greater than he, etc. These statements might seem contradictory, but as I see it, they're both right, and they apply not just to Jesus, but to everyone.

If Man is the expression or reflection of God, then there really isn't any place where God ends and Man begins, any more than there is a place where the Pacific Ocean ends and Monterey Bay begins. Monterey Bay is one place where the Pacific Ocean exists, or manifests itself. The ocean individualizes itself as many different places and things at once, from tiny drops to bays, straits, island shores and open sea. Likewise, Christ Jesus is one place where God exists, or manifests Himself. Its the same with you and me, the grass, trees and flowers, etc. etc. etc.

The Christ might be likened to the currents of water that flow through every place in the ocean. The spirit of Truth and Love that flows through our hearts.

[Jael]

I am new to Christian Science and I had a question concerning what mainstream Christianity teaches. Was Jesus the Christ, God in flesh that suffered for mankind to be redeemed to himself? I always had concerns about that question and is it the same theology accepted in Christian Science?Could any of my brothers and sisters on this forum support their views from what the Bible teaches.

Thank you for your feedback!
Dee

Dee:

Both Jesus and God are called Alpha and Omega in the book of Revelation. Alpha means “first” and Omega means “last.” There cannot be two firsts and two lasts.

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” (Rev 1:8)

“And he said unto [John], It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” (Rev 21:6,7)

“And, behold, I come quickly. . . . I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. . . .Surely I come quickly.” John’s response is, “Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.” (Rev 22: 12a, 13, 20)

“Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I live for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.” (John 1: 17b, 18)

By linking himself with the term I AM, Jesus identified himself with the God of the Old Testament:

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” (John 8:58)

These are just two examples with supporting scripture. It looks to me that they are one in the same.

Jael

[David]

I can't speak for all Christian Scientists, but the other responses in this thread clearly suggest that in general Christian Scientists would not agree with Jael's opinion that Jesus is God. I won't get into throwing Bible verses back and forth, as verses can be found to support all sorts of stuff (and sometimes the same verse is used to support diametrically opposed views). Science and Health makes the Christian Science position clear. You might want to look at what's called the platform (Science and Health, pp. 330-340). As someone mentioned in a previous post, the book is available on this site.

[LoraHoward]

All that is going on is that there is one Mind.
A mind that did not think, which is the act of having ideas, would be non-entity. Having ideas is what a mind does.
An idea cannot exist without a mind thinking it.
If the mind was not there, or stopped thinking , there would be no idea either.

There is One Mind only.
it's name is God.
it's idea is called Christ.
Every single lesser idea( all the individual things that make up Man and the universe) is included in this Christ.

Jesus exemplified Christ better than anyone.
He was idea.
What he called The Father is the one Mind.
Mind and idea cannot be separated, even though they are distinct.

--Lora

[dee]

Awesome and may the Divine Mind Bless you!

Dee!

[zoarean]

Shelly,

As I've read Jesus words in the Bible, I've never found any evidence to indicate that Jesus saw himself as God...Jesus if always very clear that he is not God.

The only reason Jesus was less than explicit during his three years of ministry about his unique standing as both God & man was the fact that it would have caused his hearers to turn a deaf ear to his words. Consider if you were listening to someone talk about God & then they went on to claim that they in fact were God! You would dismiss them as a nut & walk away. Not to mention the fact that Jewish Law would demand him to be stoned (John 10:33). That is why he generally referred to himself as the "Son of Man" - to cause less offense & make his message palatable to the masses. But even by this, he was picking up on a reference to Old Testament prophecy of the Messiah-

“I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.” Daniel 7:13-14 KJV

Nevertheless, he was more explicit at times. In the inner room, amongst his closest followers, He prayed to the Father thusly: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” John 17:5 KJV

Yes, there are other verses that can be interpreted to say otherwise, but intellectually honest Bible study requires that all of Scripture be given equal footing as we judge what the truth may be. The hundreds of verses that explicitly declare Jesus to be God should not be ignored in favor of the ones that seem to say otherwise. The honest seeker will parse equal ground to all of God's word in his search for the truth.

zoarean

[E100]

The question about Jesus being God has ignited discussion for centuries. As has been pointed out in this thread, Bible verses can be found that seem to support one position or another, or, depending on how the verse is viewed, even more than one position. While people are free to express themselves in this thread, these forums are not the place to debate this or any question, and the moderators will not allow debate. Perhaps the best thing to say here is that honest seekers will turn to God, not human opinion or theological doctrine, for answers to this question. As Matthew (6:6) gives Jesus’ words, “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”

[Do Go Be Man]

David wrote:

... I won't get into throwing Bible verses back and forth, as verses can be found to support all sorts of stuff (and sometimes the same verse is used to support diametrically opposed views). Science and Health makes the Christian Science position clear ...
Do you consider the Bible relevant to this discussion?

I understand that in the context of the Article X (Debating in Public) of the Manual of the Mother Church this may appear to be a problematic question and topic as members of the Christian Science church are not authorized to "debate on Christian Science in
public debating assemblies, without the consent of the Board of Directors."

[zoarean]

E100,

Thank you for posting my viewpoint despite your objections. As one who embraces the idea of God's total sovereignty, I utterly reject the notion of forcing my view of God upon anyone. As you mentioned, God Himself will bring all His children to the level of understanding that they need to be able to abide in Him. He has in the past & will continue to speak through man as well as directly through His Spirit towards His goal of drawing His children close to Him.

I honestly did not seek antagonistic debate, just respectful discussion. I pray God speaks truth to all of us on this board & in the secret place as well.

thanks again,
zoarean

[dee]

Zoearean,
Thank you for your message and may the Divine Mind Bless you!

Dee